[brutos]

Please do not assume that US-American ideals are universal.

Germany has a complicated history, which it has and will always struggle with. Restricting hate speech and symbols is completely legal and also seen as an important and good thing. The modern German constitution was built especially to defend its democracy even against a majority hostile towards it (Artikel 20). Germany has learned its own lessons from history.

[elpocko]

I'm actually german and I do not agree with those laws at all. I'm not even affected by them, I just happen to think that free and unrestricted speech is most important and should apply to everyone and anyone, regardless of what is being said. Private law is a different matter though.

If the speech Facebook is forced to delete is illegal, there must be criminal investigation, by law. So it can't be illegal, which means the government is actually suppressing freedom of speech.

> Restricting hate speech and symbols is completely legal

"But it is legal" is not exactly a helpful response to criticism of a law.

[brutos]

> If the speech Facebook is forced to delete is illegal, there must be criminal investigation, by law.

I agree with that. Facebook should not be the instance deciding what is to be deleted or not. The german judicial system should be involved and offenders be prosecuted within the judicial system.

[throwaway7312]

We tried shame and humiliation as good things and governance tools in Germany before, between 1919 and 1933. We know how well that worked the first time. Yet, it's become the governance tool of choice there again.

For years, whenever I talk to German friends, the fear and timidity about discussing the German past from them is palpable. They just do not want to discuss it. All you have to ask them is, "So what do you think about World War II?" and you will see them start to sputter, slip into a kind of trance, and recite a spiel about how Germany did some very bad things. Even outside their country. They can't even talk about what is happening now. When I was in Berlin this year, in a very nice place in a very nice part of town, my host told me to make sure to lock up because there had been a steep rise in break ins and robberies in that part of town. I could tell he wanted to say "because of the migrants", but he caught himself and held his tongue. To point out the emperor's lack of clothes is verboten in Deutschland.

And now, again, we see the stirrings of strong, proud nationalist elements in response to all this, as what were previously fringe parties gain steam yelling about the Lugenpresse, and more and more Germans listen.

Hasn't this all happened before?

I'm not sure when political parties and other interested parties will figure out that shame and humiliation are terrible governance tools that only build up resentment and cause reactance in humans. Because they sure haven't figured this one out yet.

[FrancoDiaz]

He wasn't assuming that American freedom of expression is universal, but we can assume he was already aware of your "explanation" of why Germany is the way it is.

Explanations of why doesn't mean it's a good thing.