[M_Grey]

It is, but it's also not what I said. I'm saying, in relation to the comment chain, that drones do lead to more foreign casualties because of how we're willing to use them, i.e. casually.

Do you have an argument that doesn't involve rephrasing mine?

[darawk]

It is equivalent to what you said. If you are criticizing the way that we use drones, that's fine and you have no argument from me. Criticizing the use of them at all because of their lower cost is silly.

[M_Grey]

What you're missing (or "missing") is that how we use drones, and drones themselves are inextricably linked.

[darawk]

No they aren't. Certain paths may get easier, but it's just up to us to choose the right ones. There is nothing about drone use that entails the killing of civilians, any more than any other form of killing. The fact that it makes it less personal, as i've pointed out elsewhere in this thread, can be an advantage and a disadvantage.

If you care about a goal that actually matters, like reducing violence, you'll push for better verification procedures when a target is going to be struck. Not a reduction in drone use in general, and not an attack on the concept of drones.

Drones present a unique opportunity thus far in war to have stringent procedures in place that control the pulling of the trigger. They represent an opportunity to dramatically reduce civilian death, and increase responsibility for those that abuse their status as drone operators to murder civilians. On a battlefield, it's almost impossible to evaluate killings ex-post. Not so for a drone operator. They are perfectly safe, every single input available to them will be available to any tribunal who wishes to review their actions. They do not have the excuse of feeling threatened, or the heat of battle, or anything like that.

Drones are going to be a good thing for civilian casualties, IF and only if we guide them in the right direction. And that isn't going to happen if we keep naively complaining about their use in blanket terms.

[grzm]

Can you elaborate? Inextricably is a pretty strong word.

Edit: I'm not implying a position. With a strong assertion I'm interested in how one arrives there.

[nitrogen]

Creation of a new type of weapon cannot be separated ethically or conceptually from the ways the weapon will be used. The design of a weapon influences the manner of its use, and that is unavoidable. The same is true of all objects -- design influences behavior. This link is inextricable.