[Stratoscope]

If an OLED panel replaces the function keys, that ruins it for me. I mostly run Windows on my late-2013 15" MBPR, and I use the function keys all the time. Especially for debugging. F5, F9, F10, F11 are burned into my brain.

I used to be a huge ThinkPad fan, but their wilderness years of bad displays and constant keyboard rearrangement turned me off, so I thought I'd try using my MBPR for Windows work instead. Turns out to be a very nice Windows machine, with the bonus of being able to boot into macOS too. (I can also run Windows under Parallels in macOS and that works pretty well, but running Windows native in a Boot Camp partition is more responsive.)

The only serious function key issue is the lack of the little gaps between F4-F5 and F8-F9. If you don't use the function keys much, you'd be surprised how important those gaps are for a touch typist. Lenovo even ditched the gaps for a while (and they had their own misguided experiment with a touch panel in the second gen X1 Carbon), but now the gaps are back - and they finally have good displays again.

ThinkPads also have the Home/End/PgUp/PgDn keys instead of the crazy contorted Fn+arrow combinations you have to use on a Mac keyboard.

I've gotten pretty used to these Mac keyboard issues by now, but losing the function keys? That's a bit much. Looks like my next Windows machine will be another ThinkPad.

[charlesism]

I'm not thrilled to lose "real" Fn keys. Nobody gets air time these days if they criticize Touch interfaces, but in many ways they are unpleasant to use:

- Lack of tactile feedback makes them imprecise (is my finger over the button?)

- Imperfect sensitivity means even if you touch the correct area, 5% of the time the touch won't register. If it does, there's still the problem of response time (eg: it's easier to quickly type "AAAAA" on a mechanical keyboard).

- "Hover hand": resting your fingers on a touch screen is risky, so the ergonomics aren't great. If you relax with your hand on a touchscreen, you're liable to accidentally trigger a command.

I can live with it, if it's just the Fn keys, but I consider it a slightly unfavorable trade-off.

What really ruined this event for me is the rumor sites. Nothing Apple announces this month could possibly interest me as much as the rumored 2018 E-Ink keyboard. I've wanted such a keyboard since the Lebedev first announced their LED model, back in 2007 (earlier even?). I can't wait!

[laurentdc]

I hope the OLED panel doesn't replace the physical function keys. I have ESC plus F1-12 mapped to stuff like turn on/off spellcheck, paste mode, switch language in vim which I use a lot for LaTeX. I don't want to remap them.

It's something Lenovo already tried and was hated for with the X1 Carbon (luckily they removed the useless OLED gimmick thing in a next iteration). [0]

[0] http://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2014/04/lenovoca...

[tgb]

I just bought a new keyboard. There is literally none on the market that has the keys I want in the right places. This makes some sense since there are too many possibilities, but damn is it annoying to have to make tradeoffs. Please someone make a customized keyboard business. I ended up giving up on have a small (in width) keyboard with F keys, separate media keys, and pg up/dwn.

Now good luck finding a laptop with the right keyboard.

[mamcx]

As I tell in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12679849 exist a whole sub-culture of build your own mechanical keyboard.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/

https://geekhack.org/

https://www.massdrop.com/mechanical-keyboards

So yes, exist people that build customized keyboards or (maybe) better, give info in how build your own.

[falcolas]

> There is literally none on the market that has the keys I want in the right places.

If you're referring to laptop keyboard layouts, I agree. So much wasted space on your average macbook for the scrunched up keys they give you. If you're referring to keyboards in general, well, I disagree. There's a lot of custom options out there for almost every keyboard layout you could ever want.

[tgb]

I was referring to a standalone keyboard. You're right that there are some customizable keyboards out there (this one looks particularly good [1]), but unlike most people looking for a customizable keyboard, I'd like it to be both wireless and without mechanical keyswitches. I haven't seen those available. And for mechanical keyboards you tend not to have dedicated media keys (ideally, they'd feel differently so that you can hit them without looking or in the dark -- I'll never remember which order the volume keys, mute, and pause song buttons are in since it's non-standard).

[1] http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/

[toyg]

> I mostly run Windows on my late-2013 15" MBPR

It's safe to say you're not really Apple's target market :)

Personally, I won't believe this OLED thingie until I actually see it with my own eyes, but with the right support in the OS APIs, might turn out to be a shot in the arm for the laptop concept. Imagine replacing the whole keyboard with an ipad-like touchscreen? Sure, abhorrent for a programmer, but quite exciting for everyone else. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the actual long-term endgame, for which an OLED strip is just a trial balloon.

[Stratoscope]

Sorry you got downvoted. FWIW, I upvoted your comment - I pretty much always upvote replies to my comments, whether I agree or not, just to thank people for engaging in a conversation with me. The only exception is when someone is rude or nasty, which you certainly weren't. :-)

That said, I'm not sure I agree. It's not just programmers who benefit from physical keyboards, but everyone who types. And that's a lot of people. I've tried typing on an iPad and an Android tablet, and it's pretty awkward compared with a physical keyboard.

OTOH, a friend has a touchscreen ThinkPad, and while she is a touch typist, she uses the touchscreen all the time. It makes me a little crazy to see her tapping the screen to do things that would be much easier with the TrackPoint or touchpad and buttons, but I just bite my tongue and let her have at it. :-)

[grzm]

Or maybe replacing/expanding the trackpad, something similar to 10gui?[0] Less downside to replace the function row as a trial balloon than the trackpad. And keep the keyboard!

[0]: http://10gui.com

[jshevek]

You might find this interesting:

https://www.cnet.com/products/lenovo-yoga-book/review/