[madaxe_again]

Dude, we were already behind. The only significant US first in space was the lunar landing - the USSR thrashed the US with everything from Sputnik to venera to Gagarin to salyut.

The only difference is that you now have a window out of your propaganda bubble.

There's a reason that Chinese space progress is barely reported, if at all, in the west. It's embarrassing, and doesn't tie in with the deluded "west is best" worldview.

[throwaway123098]

But we were not _really_ behind. We were about a year behind (if not less), and much was due to other American advantages: we didn't need huge rockets (which would launch humans into space) since American nuclear bombs were smaller.

The reason we don't hear much about China is because that don't do much:

Launch a man into space once a year? Land a rover on the Moon? That's 1960s news.

If it would be more serious, there would be a "Sputnik scare" like in the 60s, not silence

[exDM69]

The big difference between the execution of the US and Soviet space races is that the Soviets produced the Soyuz - a very capable space craft and launch vehicle that still flies today. On top of that they pioneered space stations and long duration manned space missions.

The US on the other hand built an impractically large moonshot rocket that was too expensive to keep on producing. Then the US moved on the the Space Shuttle, which overpromised and underdelivered (e.g. did not serve the air force and get funding from there) and didn't provide a contingency into the future and had to be retired leaving the US with no manned space launch capability.

[smileysteve]

By going directly from the moon to shuttle, you conveniently forget Skylab.

Also, something about hubble.

[exDM69]

I didn't mention them (but I'm very well aware of them) because they're not very relevant to the point.

Skylab was a great project and good utilization of leftovers from the Apollo program (although the Soviets did much better with Salyut -> Mir -> ISS when it comes to technology reuse). The end of Skylab was a bit embarrassing as it did not survive long enough to be serviced by the shuttle and there were no more Saturn launchers remaining. Although the damage sustained at launch/deployment makes it arguable whether it would have been a good idea in the first place.

Hubble is also neat (and a testament to the capabilities of the Shuttle as it was repaired twice), and JWST is going to be a good successor.

But there's still very little continuity in the American space program compared to their Russian counterpart. I guess it's partly to blame on the fact the the NASA budget and goals change dramatically when the occupant of the White House changes but I've read some news that they're trying to establish longer term goals. I'm afraid that whoever is the next president will again move the goal posts and set back the SLS + Orion program, which is closest to being the first manned deep space capable space program after the Apollo program.

My point of comparison is the fact that variants of the Russian Soyuz rockets and space craft have been in continuous operation since 1966.

[madaxe_again]

No. America is better because it is America. You can't be better than the best, it's logically impossible.

[ChoHag]

> But we were not _really_ behind.

We should keep telling ourselves that. It may also help us convince ourselves that our arsehole is indeed the best place for our head to be.

[throwaway123098]

Also, Explorer 1 had scientific payload (which discovered the Van-Allen belts), unlike Sputnik

[madaxe_again]

Sputnik was the science payload - at that point the US were still saying it'd be years until orbit was reached.

Ironically, had it not been for the space race, we might have a more mature space program now, rather than one largely based on 1940s technology and engineering. They rushed to production and massively invested in a single model on both sides, rather than exploring options fully before commencing - similar applies to nuclear technology, insofar as thorium would have been the better tech, but was too late to the party to gain traction, never mind the weapon byproduct bit.

[Figs]

The US does actually have some other significant firsts in space, especially in the outer solar system:

- First probe to reach Jupiter (Pioneer 10)

- First probe to reach escape velocity needed to leave the solar system (Pioneer 10)

- Arguably, first probe to leave the solar system (Pioneer 10 or Voyager 1, depending on the definition of "leave the solar system")

- First probe to orbit Jupiter (Galileo)

- First probe to fly-by an asteroid (Galileo) -- passed by 951 Gaspra

- First probe to reach Saturn (Pioneer 11)

- First (and only) probe to visit Uranus (Voyager 2)

- First (and only) probe to visit Neptune (Voyager 2)

- First (and only) probe to visit Pluto (New Horizons)

- First probe to reach Mercury (Mariner 10)

- First probe to orbit Mercury (MESSENGER) -- also, to date, these are the only two probes to visit Mercury

- First probe to orbit two different celestial bodies (Dawn) -- it orbited the asteroids Vesta and Ceres. Also, the first time either body has been visited by a probe.

- First photograph of Earth from orbit (Explorer 6) -- not a particularly good image by modern standards, but a pretty significant first given the importance spy satellites have played in international relations since then (You can see the image here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:First_satellite_photo_-_E... )

Somewhat less significant by modern standards, but still interesting:

- First probe to send back data from Venus (Mariner 2) -- the USSR had a fly-by before this (Venera 1), but lost contact with the probe and so couldn't get any data from the fly-by, unfortunately. Mariner 2 didn't have a camera though.

- First probe to successfully return images from Mars (Mariner 4) -- the USSR had the first fly-by (Mars 1), a few years earlier but they lost contact with the probe before it actually reached Mars.

- First probe to orbit Mars (Mariner 9) -- also the first to orbit another planet. Only just barely beat the USSR Mars 2 probe by about two weeks though.

Some other interesting links on space history:

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_space_exploration

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Solar_System_probes