[jdmichal]

You're argument is exactly what I call the difference between a "trade programmer" and a "computer scientist". You are describing the former, while all the Google-copycat interviews with algorithms and data structures are designed to hire the latter.

As you said, trade programmers typically glue together existing components and frameworks. Sometimes, this is really all that's necessary, as you have proven with your businesses. Computer scientists are qualified to create those underlying systems in the first place, properly weighing and selecting the algorithms and data structures to meet constraints.

I don't mean any of this to cast a negative light on trade programmers. They are 80-90% what a business needs, and I think there should be better opportunities for people to become such without the 4-year degree. [0] However, the limitations also need to be understood, and in my opinion a business is best served with a smaller set of computer scientists to provide technical guidance. Otherwise, you will see a lot of history-repeating-itself type of bad decisions.

[0] This is basically the hole that bootcamps have attempted to fill. They could also be filled with associates degrees or apprenticeships.

[Futurebot]

Part of the issue we have in software is that many companies interview for computer scientists (which they sometimes/often think they need) when they actually are looking for trade/craft software developers (but don't realize/admit it.) So many discussions around this topic reveal this fundamental mismatch in expectations/perceived needs/skillsets.

[jdmichal]

Absolutely. This is a shift that would need to made in hiring just as much as education. I consider the split pretty analogous to drafters vs architects. Both jobs have roughly the same output -- drafted plans. But the architect is properly trained and licensed to determine things like feasibility, safety, regulatory compliance, etc.

[jghn]

I think your percentages are too low. IMO it's more like 95-97% of businesses are 99-100% served by what you describe as a trade programmer.

The problem is that it seems that 90+% of shops think they're 0% served by trade programmers.

[jdmichal]

Sure; 87.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot anyway. [0] It will also vary greatly depending on your business scale. Google needs computer scientists; at their scale any efficiency slip is very costly. For the local small business looking to turn their Excel spreadsheet sitting on a shared network drive into a CRUD app, a trade programmer or two is probably entirely sufficient.

[0] Yes, you heard me right! 91.4% of all statistics are made up at the very moment!

[sportanova]

Unless you're actually building a database or something like Kafka it's way more useful to have someone that knows how to use a debugger and a profiler

[clifanatic]

> You're argument

* your

"you're" expands to "you are" - substitute "you are" in the sentence above and you can see that it's incorrect.

[jdmichal]

I'm quite aware. Typo caused by my brain thinking about where it was going and not where it was.