[coldtea]

>Apple has a problem with leadership. When managers aren't buying into a vision, mostly because it's murky at best, that is a big problem.

That's the inverse of what would actually be a big problem: managers BUYING into a "murky at best" vision.

>SV hubris believing you can go into any industry and disrupt the incompetent incumbents is laughable.

Isn't that what people said about music players and then about phones? Heck, they are already the #2 watchmaker in the world in profits too...

>FB found this out with phones and it sounds like Apple and Google are now figuring it out with cars.

Neither Google nor Apple have ever released in car. If anything, their setbacks are related to the advanced self-driving stuff they aspire to make, not some issue competing with existing car tech or distribution or anything.

Besides, tons of companies have entered the car market and gave established car companies a run for their money already. The Japanese obliterated the established Detroit order for example, and new Chinese cars are as good as anybody's for general use. Tesla also come out of nowhere and cornered a niche of the market. Heck, traditional car companies are so complacent and derivative that if anything it's the inverse of hubris to believe one can do better.

Nowadays, when most of the manufacturing the expertise is in assembly lines in China and the like, creating a new car to compete with existing models is laughably easy -- especially if you have $500 billion lying around.

[skybrian]

You're comparing entirely different things.

Chinese cars are barely being imported in the U.S. (Three models so far). It has taken many years to get this far, and will take longer for them to have a similar reputation as, say, Korea.

Tesla has done well in the luxury car market, but they've been late and had quality issues. The Tesla 3 is not out yet and there is still a big risk they'll fail.

So, "laughably easy" is a major exaggeration. It's possible to launch a new car company but nobody finds it easy.

[coldtea]

>Chinese cars are barely being imported in the U.S. (Three models so far). It has taken many years to get this far, and will take longer for them to have a similar reputation as, say, Korea.

Yes, but the US is a mere 5% of the global population and about 20% of global GDP (down from decades ago). You can be a huge player and not even play in the US market. The Chinese are already selling their cars in many global markets.

>Tesla has done well in the luxury car market, but they've been late and had quality issues. The Tesla 3 is not out yet and there is still a big risk they'll fail.

Tesla doesn't have Apple's half a trillion in the bank though. And which established car maker didn't have quality issues at various times (and still today)?

[serge2k]

> Isn't that what people said about music players and then about phones?

No.

[coldtea]

You'd be surprised.

Palm CEO in 2006 Ed Colligan, about the upcoming Apple iPhone: “We’ve learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone. PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in.”

Dell CEO Kevin Rollins, after Dell had released the Dell DJ Ditty (lol) mp3 player: "So this [the iPod] might be an interesting new product but I’m not really believing this is going to turn the industry upside down." (...) ""Apple's created a niche. If you look at the grand scheme of things, this quarter we are supposed to achieve something like $13.5 billion in revenue. Apple's in the $2.4 billion (region), so the size and scale is not even in the same league."

Creative's CEO about Apple's iPod new model circa 2005: "I think the whole industry will just laugh at it, because the flash people — it’s worse than the cheapest Chinese player. Even the cheap, cheap Chinese brand today has display and has FM. They don’t have this kind of thing, and they expect to come out with a fight; I think it’s a non-starter to begin with."