[rurban]

Dresden is even better. I moved from Houston, TX to Dresden and I'm very happy with my choice. Technically it's more interesting, as the University and high tech companies here are much more advanced (i.e the l4 microkernel is from here), prices are the same, and Dresden is a much more beautiful town than ugly Berlin. Lots of English speaking foreigners, and people are more friendly. For startup's there's only one or two meetup points and helpers/investors but still better than Houston or Austin.

If going for cheap, Wroclaw or Prague would be better.

[hellofunk]

> Dresden is a much more beautiful town than ugly Berlin.

That is certainly subjective (and offensive). I have not been to Dresden but I found Berlin to be quite an interesting aesthetic environment and hardly sore on the eyes. It has huge, lovely green parks and I find the wide open spaces throughout the town rather refreshing.

[danielbln]

It's a big city, there are ugly parts, and there are pretty parts. Same for Dresden, it has some really lovely buildings, but anything that was built after the 50s is ugly as sin.

[Normal_gaussian]

How much of Dresden was rebuilt 45-60 and how much was rebuilt later? I presume most land was made usable pretty quickly however I can't imagine they were high quality long term buildings.

I need to go to Dresden.

[Grishnakh]

He's probably talking about the side of Berlin that used to be under DDR rule. It's no secret, and certainly not offensive, to say that architecture during the Iron Curtain days was pretty horrible.

[DasIch]

In times of Pegida I'm not sure Dresden is where you want to go.

[raverbashing]

Worries towards them might be exaggerated, as worries towards other groups might be underestimated

[mtmail]

Can you explain Pegida?

[Kliment]

It's a highly vocal racist/xenophobic/sorta-nationalist movement that is based in Dresden. It started out as EU-criticism and has now grown more into a right-wing-fringe/anti-immigrant/anti-establishment movement focused on hating the media, the government, and anyone who doesn't side with them. They're famous for having invited speakers from the neonazi scene at their regular street rallies. The name literally translates to "patriotic europeans against the islamisation of the occident" (yes, really)

[DasIch]

They're essentially a group of neonazis who protest every monday for about two years now against immigrants and refugees.

[allendoerfer]

They are more dangerous than that. There are straight neonazis in there, but it is a broad spectrum from straight Nazi to the "besorgter Bürger" (concerned citizen), which is a meme in Germany for the new right and far-right. For obvious reasons it was previously socially unacceptable to voice these viewpoints out loud. Pegida and the AfD party changed that a bit and like everywhere else in Europe the right is on the rise in Germany.

Nevertheless I would not count on them surviving. The AfD constantly has to fight the Nazis in there, split itself in one German state (Bawü), wants to get rid of their subdivision in another state (Saarland) and has members from Nazi parties they have to exclude of all over the place. Meanwhile Merkel and the established parties already moved to the right and the refugee crisis is largely over - at least in Germany. Lately Merkel is even gaining in popularity polls again.

[DasIch]

There is an important difference in that they don't act like neonazis typically do. Nevertheless I think it's even more important to keep in mind that despite what names people may assign to them, ideologically there is no notable distinction.

These are people who don't value freedom or equality. They are driven by hatred of anyone different from themselves and accept as moral only what confirms that hatred, sometimes bastardizing religion in the process.

They're not special. They are no different than the people so many have fought throughout human history to get the freedom and the approximation of equality we have reached today.

The only noteworthy thing about them is that they've shown that many people are too comfortable in their human rights. Those rights aren't natural and they aren't self-evident only our belief in them is. Human rights do require work not just to acquire but to maintain, wherever and whenever you are.

[allendoerfer]

As I said, they are more dangerous than straight nazis, because they dress normally, have job and are overall much more presentable.

NPD, Rebulikaner and so on have much less potential, because most people even with far-right views would still avoid to be associated with grunting skinheads and risk to be socially excluded.

My view on them is a bit different than yours. I don't think that we necessarily have to talk to them. They often live in their own world with their own conspiracies and mistrust the press, the state, the West and so on. I doubt that talking to them would give us any great insights. So the "die Sorgen der Menschen ernst nehmen" meme ("to take the worries of the people seriously"), politicians played for a while is bullshit.

I do think so that especially since they do not have a very nuanced view on the world at all, we should analyze them very carefully. They are not just evil nazis. There are so many reasons for them (and other populists, see Trump, Brexit etc.) existing:

- one crisis after another (financial, Euro, refugees)

- rising complexity of the world

- their conspiracies regarding NSA/CIA have an actual basis

- stagnation of the West

- lived behind a wall for decades with no immigrants at all

- feeling to be left behind Western Germany

- and many more possible explanations

I also think that not every right idea is bad. The most liberal regulations do not give you anything if the whole system collapses under you. Britain is already gone, we should be really careful now. I think the people badly want control over what's going on, so they are turning to easy answers and to smaller circles. Out of globalization, the EU, the US, back to Russia (in case of Eastern Germany), the country, the family and so on.

We need the planned immigration law. We should help refugees (even though we should have complied with the Dublin regulations), but I don't think there is anything wrong with copying the places Germans immigrate to and specifying clear rules about what kind of people from outside the EU we want to let in.

Unfortunately the EU has no actual leadership, so Merkel has to step in as the defacto leader, take Hollande by the hand and make some bold moves to show the people that the EU can act and is in fact a successful model. Maybe even pissing of the US a bit and rejecting TTIP to show strength.