[Mz]

Well, I guess, I am more wondering what you, personally, are doing to "solve poverty" and that isn't merely some rhetorical device or idle curiosity. I run at least three websites intended to get useful info into the hands of the most vulnerable and needy. I am not a fan of policy advocacy and I wonder why you are putting so much time and energy into this argument. If it is a derail, why are you spending time and attention on the derail, thereby taking energy away from solutions?

And I suppose that sounds hypocritical. But I am just basically trying to get through the damn day and that's why I am talking with a stranger on the internet about a topic I tend to intentionally avoid as not a good use my time.

Peace.

[SomeStupidPoint]

> I am not a fan of policy advocacy and I wonder why you are putting so much time and energy into this argument.

Well, for starters, policy (and politics in general) is a big deal.

For instance, the city I'm in is spending about $50 per person in the metro on homelessness every year (which works out to about 1% of the budget). So not only does politicking shape how they spend my $50 yearly "contribution", it shapes how they spend everyone else's $50, which adds up pretty quickly in a major metro. It works out to about $13k per year per person currently on the streets, so programs with a 3 year duration would have about $4k per person per year to work with from the city.

That's, perhaps, not enough to just outright solve the problem -- but we're within an order of magnitude. And helping steer something within that kind of striking range of the problem is way more than I could do through other channels.

That being said, the next most important thing I do is tutor in poor areas. I charge a lot to teach privileged children math (and not to brag too much, but my students usually go on to do well in their future math classes), but offer those services at a steeply discounted or free rate for people who can't afford it. It'll only directly impact a few lives and only to a limited extent, but at some level, that's all it really takes. That if we really want to break things like cyclic poverty, we need everyone to put in a couple hours of professional effort a week/month, and sustain the adjustment for a generation or two. Again, advocacy is important -- we have to convince our peers that it's worth it to put that effort in. But that's how the world really changes, with the waxes and wanes of small, every-day social trends.

And I've been known to make the occasional spur of the moment donation or buy random meals, but I don't really count that. I mean, I'm sure it helps in small ways -- a good meal counts for a lot, and being acknowledged or treated as a person can mean as much -- but it's not really moving the ball forward on the problem. (Though, again, if everyone just did a little bit of that, it probably would make a big difference, cumulatively.)

But let me ask you this: when we live in a land and time of plenty, when we have enough food, wealth, and homes for everyone with margins left over, what makes you think homelessness is anything besides a policy and advocacy issue?

Homelessness (in the US) is an artificial outcome of our economic model, it's existence a choice we're making (as a society), and we should never forget that.

[Mz]

Thank you.

Long before I was homeless, I had a class on Homelessness and Public Policy through SFSU. I am aware policy matters. But, I am kind of a fan of That government is best which governs least.

When I was first on the street, I went to meal sites, etc for a time. I mostly hate programs intended to "help the homeless." They mostly suck. Homeless people are just people without housing. If we get off the street, we stop being The Homeless.

If we focused more on solving things like the huge shortage of affirdable housing in this country, a lot more people like me could solve our own damn problems without having to go through some program where we will be treated like idiots who should be grateful for what is often rather abusive treatment. Let me recommend these two links:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12639356

http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2016/07/minimum-dece...

Thank you very much for teaching math. That is always a good thing. I tutored math for free as a member of Mu Alpha Theta (a collegevlevel math honor society) in 11th grade. A lot of math instruction really sucks. Props to you on that account.

[SomeStupidPoint]

I agree that a lot of programs for the homeless suck, and they suck for the same reason that a lot of prison programs suck, in that people often attach moral or social evaluations to the people involved -- homeless or criminals -- that just aren't true. They don't see "there goes me, except for a few lucky encounters", they see "there goes something I could never be".

Which is why I feel even more obligated to be involved on the advocacy side -- part (perhaps even all) of fixing the problem is changing the narrative in society about who the homeless are. Shaping that narrative, and the effect it has on choices about our economic model or policy decisions, really is the most direct thing I could do to combat homelessness, because it eats at the heart of what makes homelessness so damaging.

That being said, I'm also a big fan of more scientific methods. Things like "housing first" programs are showing HUGE promise in making lasting change, and while less glamorous, we're slowly tying the social safety net back together and working to make it more efficient, so less people fall through the holes (which got a lot bigger when certain people were in power and went around making tears, but c'est la vie) and become trapped in homelessness in the first place.

I have a lot of hope for involuntary homelessness being (largely) solved in another generation or two, if we can keep momentum on it. The problem of what to do with some of the people who are... less there mentally, and have trouble functioning in society at a personal level is of course difficult in the long term, because while we can give them houses easily enough, keeping them in them might require involuntary and on-going intervention at times, and that's a very touchy subject. Mental health care, particularly involuntary mental health care, has a dark history in this country.

I actually need to get going, but I've enjoyed speaking with you.