[Odenwaelder]

In chinese culture, losing one's "face" is one of the worst things that can happen to a person. I'm wondering whether the fact that 80% of data has been fabricated is a result of that. As in, "I have to make my findings significant to not lose my face", or, "Presenting negative findings to my superior will make me lose my face". Maybe someone more familiar with this culture could elaborate.

[radicsge]

It's not about the face. It was clearly written there "local pharmaceutical companies trying to produce Western drugs struggle to turn a profit"... What about Theranos in the US? Same..

Isn't it because the turn everything into profit within two years "success or nothing" attitude?

If something ruins the world, it will be two countries that under the surface is way too similar to each other.

[finid]

Wait a minute!

That seems to be backward. Doesn't "losing face" come from being caught doing the wrong thing or being dishonest, so that the incentive to fabricate data for something as important as scientific research should be very, very low?

[HillRat]

I'm not sure that reputational risk is the same thing; I suspect one way to look at it is that a researcher who returns the null case is disrupting the organization by putting a lot of other peoples' work and assurances at risk. So there would be a significant amount of implicit social pressure to show results and maintain organizational harmony.

[beeftime]

having lived and worked in China for a few years, I can confirm you're dead on the money.

[794CD01]

That sounds like academia anywhere.

[finid]

Yep, publish or perish applies to academia everywhere.

[psyc]

No, because losing face is not really about morality or honesty in the first place - it's more important than honesty. The primary thing here is the sharp and pervasive divide between facade and reality. The facade is more important. There are a lot of cultures where fronting is the main thing. It's just particularly evident in China.

[travmatt]

Also in Japan, as even a nuclear disaster isn't impetus enough to forego 'saving face':

On July 5, an independent investigative commission established by the Japanese Diet issued its final report on the accident at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station. Hailed as the definitive word on the subject thus far, the report points to what it calls the "fundamental causes" of the disaster, all of them cultural. The chairman's message in the report assails "the ingrained conventions of Japanese culture: our reflexive obedience; our reluctance to question authority; our devotion to 'sticking with the program'; our groupism; and our insularity." The nuclear disaster, in short, was "a disaster 'Made in Japan.'" News media around the world characterized the report's damning indictment of Japanese culture as unusually candid for the nation known to do anything to save face.[http://thebulletin.org/japan%E2%80%99s-culture-culprit-nucle...]

[Odenwaelder]

You might be right, depending on the culture's definition of "wrong". Let's hope you're right...

[mike_hock]

Being caught is the keyword.

[ravenstine]

Very interesting analysis. If this is accurate, they should get rid of that attitude, pronto, as they have the highest potential of being on the scientific forefront(or at least that of medical science).