[lolc]

These episodes could only happen in late-stage abortions which are very rare. You can call it murder but that doesn't inform the debate about abortion in general.

[Chris2048]

Yes it does, you focus on the harm. If late stage abortion is wrong, it needs to be outlawed, and hence that would be the focus of the debate.

[lolc]

The way I read it the parent comment portrayed all abortions to be of this type. ("If you read up on the way it is practiced there is a fat chance you will see the link as well.") To me there is a big difference between the original "abortion is murder" and your "this rare form of abortion is murder."

[Chris2048]

Looking at this site: http://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics...

there are ~1m abortions a year, 3.2% after 18 weeks; Which is about 32,000.

In absolute terms, this is dwarfed by pre-18wk abortions, more than half happen before week 8.

Hence it may be relatively rare, but:

a) The law allows late-stage, hence 100% of abortions are allowed to be late stage.

b) those figures might change, but in absolute and % terms. Early abortions are the more common now, no guarantees how that may change.

I think the many pro-lifers see the distinction as a slippery slope.

[reitanqild]

>> The way I read it the parent comment portrayed all abortions to be of this type.

Clarification since there is a misunderstanding about my understanding: No, I know most of them are not this type. I also think there is a difference between late and early although I personally would advice against both. I am not a lawmaker though.

A little background: yes, I grew up in a pro life family and while I was always personally against I didn't really start bothering until that piece of news struck me from one of the major newspapers that day. Knowing this kind of cruelty actually happens on a more or less regular basis (well known by nurses even in the small country I live in) and on the scale of 88/day * botch_factor it is now hard not to care.

That said, yes, from a pragmatic perspective just getting rid of most of those 32000 late ones would be mighty good. I would believe a number of you could agree with that.

There is now and has been for some time a somewhat healthy debate around death penalty. Unfortunately IMO it seems that the right to kill innocent children before (or, if necessary because procedure failed, after ) birth is somehow sacred and cannot be discussed publicly.