[dethstar]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca

Sometimes here in HN you will hear about how things like name,age, etc are bias for who gets hired, and people being rejected based on those things. So just add "method of conception" to that.

[lqdc13]

I was very much annoyed by the movie when I saw it. Primarily because the "genetically inferior" person somehow had more motivation and drive than the genetically engineered ones.

So perhaps they were not so much genetically superior? Maybe motivation can be passed through DNA?

In reality, what I think might happen is some people would choose the genes they want, but others won't. At the end, people will mix, so the whole population will benefit.

[Jtsummers]

> Primarily because the "genetically inferior" person somehow had more motivation and drive than the genetically engineered ones.

One thing he had over most of the "valids" was the opportunity to choose his path. The valids' parents made choices for them (Jerome was made to be a swimmer, the 12-fingered pianist, etc.). It's not wholly different than seeing a child prodigy fail as a functioning adult. They don't all, but many times when someone excels in youth in some activity and is pushed into it by the adults in their lives, a failure later leads to an inability to redirect their energy and lives (for extended periods, they become depressed). They existed for a singular purpose for so long and aren't capable (emotionally, mentally) of dealing with the freedom to choose what to do next.

Vincent's character possessed drive for several reasons: 1) he was better than his brother as a swimmer/athlete, and so knew that his in-valid status was nonsense; 2) he was resentful of being shunned by both his parents and society, and motivated by that; 3) as an in-valid, he had no purpose in life, so once he chose one, he put everything into it. The valids who still possessed their potential were similarly motivated with regard to their goals.

[lqdc13]

That's the thing. If he was the better athlete then they didn't do the generic engineering well at all.

For me the message seemed to be "don't do generic engineering because it cannot beat motivation" which discounts the potential overlap between the two and also undersells the potential gains of genetic engineering.

What if his competitors were 10x smarter and 10x faster swimmers than he was as well as being equally motivated?

[Jtsummers]

A better athlete than his brother. Not than everyone. Each valid was designed by the parents for something, or in the case of his brother just generally enhanced because they weren't filthy rich.

[lqdc13]

I guess my point is that the valids could have been 100x better athletes than all the invalids which wasn't the case in the movie. For example, they could have retractable fins and could breathe under water.

Something which would make them swim a lot faster and the point of the movie would be lost.

[dethstar]

>Primarily because the "genetically inferior" person somehow had more motivation and drive than the genetically engineered ones.

But this has nothing to do with the moral issue. Maybe it was the fact that "in-valids" had to struggle and deal with discrimination which caused the character to give his most, given that he knew where he standed while the 'valids' are in a place of comfort.

[Jtsummers]

In many ways reflecting the notion of privilege. The "valids" gained much of their quality of life benefits due to the nature of their conception rather than the nature of their person. Similarly, the "in-valids" were denied those things for the same reason.

It wasn't meritocratic except within its two communities, and the one (in-valids) were denied access to the upper levels as a matter of policy.

[nkrisc]

That's kind of the point of the movie, that his "genetic inferiority" was as much a cultural construct as anything real.

[liveoneggs]

   	 Liz:

I'm sorry. You have a problem with the science of Hot Tub Time Machine?

  	 Wesley Snipes:

Yeah, not the time travel. It's the hot tub. You don't just turn one on and it's immediately hot. I should know, I've been in a hot tub two times.