[stale2002]

Ok, how about this. I have a bunch steel in by vault. Steel is worth something and can be used to build things. I loan you this steel in order to build a factory (perhaps even a steel mill!), on the hope that your project will be successful and you will pay me back even more steel.

[ars]

> Steel is worth something

No it's not. It's just a lump of metal that sits there.

> and can be used to build things.

Only if I want things. And I only want things if I value them, and I value things, just because, there is no fundamental value to things, only what value we believe there is.

[stale2002]

How about food? Is that basic enough for you? I lend a hunter food so that he can take that temporary supply of food to eat while he is hunting and then potentially bring back more food.

[ars]

Same thing. That only works if the hunter values food. If he has enough (or knows how to get enough), he might not value food.

At the end of the day things have value only because people want them and give them value.

What value do you give air? It's absolutely essential to life after all! But since you have as much as you could use you don't value having more.

[adwn]

> Same thing. That only works if the hunter values food. If he has enough (or knows how to get enough), he might not value food.

I think you're confounding value and marginal value.

[metaphorm]

> No it's not. It's just a lump of metal that sits there.

are you trying to argue the reduction ad absurdum? obviously steel is a construction/fabrication material with a very large number of practical uses.