[currysoup_t]

Your point about referencing socialist revolutionaries is indeed part of what I'm going for, and is why I'm very reluctant to align myself with vanguardists, but we're not discussing the efficacy of revolutionary socialist parties. I meant precisely what I said, if a state is socialist-in-name-only, then how can you compare it to an actual socialist economic model. If these countries we're discussing ran a system of worker ownership, that I'm simply unaware of, then I'd love to be provided with some names so I can study their history.

European feudalism was over by about ~1500, the Industrial Revolution started in about ~1750, but it certainly makes for a cute soundbite. People on the left often cite the enclosures[1] in England as the beginnings of capitalism. Laws such as vagrancy[2] laws were in place to force people to work, land which was previously agreed to be communal was taken into private hands. If you consider this to be a 'capitalist revolution' then it could easily be argued

[1] This has a lot to do with the lefts definition of capitalism, which I recognise is not universal so enclosures being the origin of capitalism isn't an argument which is likely to be fruitful, especially on HN.

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagrancy_(people)#United_Kingd...