[JohnTHaller]

The new phones, the Pixel and Pixel XL are rumored to start at $649 for the smaller phone in the smallest memory configuration of 32gb. If true, this would mean the old Nexus line is well and truly dead and Google is taking the Apple approach to pricing. The Pixel brand is supposed to be premium at a premium price but currently has one product that fills that niche (the Pixel Chromebook) and one that doesn't (the failed Pixel C tablet that was repurposed from an abandoned Chrome OS branch to Android and launched barely functional).

[oconnor0]

I'm sad to see the Nexus line go away. I quite like my Nexus 5 but have no interest in spending over 600$ on a phone.

[zeveb]

Pretty much the only reason I even use Android has been the Nexus line. Why would I want vendor crapware on my phone? Why would I want a Google phone with Google crapware?

[pnathan]

> Why would I want vendor crapware on my phone?

This is precisely why myself and my wife are full-on Nexus users.

[Abundnce10]

So, which phones will be good options going forward if you want to avoid crapware?

[abawany]

Get a phone that has an unlockable bootloader and install Cyanogenmod and Google Play (if you must :) ).

[Abundnce10]

Is that possible to do on a Galaxy S7? I'm competent on the command line but never worked much with Android/ROMs/etc.

[abawany]

It looks like there are quite a few options for your device: http://forum.xda-developers.com/s7-edge/development . On further investigation, there is a wrinkle - if your device has the Exynos chip, then your options are pretty limited while Snapdragon devices are well supported: http://forum.xda-developers.com/s7-edge/development . Unfortunately it looks like it won't be a slam dunk for your particular device.

[uabstraction]

The OnePlus looks like an option, though I haven't ever used one myself. It's got an unlockable bootloader, so an AOSP variant or CyanogenMod should be reasonable simple to install.

[zeveb]

I honestly have no idea.

I don't want to go back to a dumbphone. I like having a computer in my hand. But what with privacy, the unsafety of apps, the crapware … what's the point anymore?

[makmanalp]

Does anyone know of a decent sub 5-inch phone? All the reviews sites seem to ignore this factor. My old 4.3" moto X is dying and I'm hoping to find a truly pocketable replacement.

[dhd415]

The "compact" phones in the Sony Xperia line are really the only ones that come close. My wife is still happily using her Z3 Compact though its successor, the Z5 Compact, didn't review as well. The newest Xperia X Compact is getting decent reviews.

[IanCal]

Another vote for the Z3C. Small, fast enough for me, and I can easily get two days out of it.

[oconnor0]

Is the Z3C getting Android updates? How is the Sony software/skin/bloatware/addons compared to the cleanness of the Nexus line?

[5555624]

Sony provided an update to 6.0.1 I did not think the bloatware was as bad as a carrier-branded phone and most of it appears easy enough to delete. For a personal phone, I'd buy the Z3C again. (For my second, work phone, I liked the Z3C enough that I decided to go with a Z3, which I also like.)

[paulgb]

On the Z3C, the Sony bloatware is bad. Apparently they've reduced it a bit since then but I haven't gone back. The hardware is nice, it's a shame they have to ruin it with crap.

[Symbiote]

I fiddled with various settings, and I think managed to disable almost all the bloatware. I get a notification about every two months that Sony's updater needs an update.

I'm pleased with the phone otherwise, and would buy it again.

[andrepd]

Check the Sony compact series, or some Chinese brand phone.

[jdc0589]

agreed. I also feel like I got the shaft with the nexus 5x. it wasn't "top of the line expensive" but it was more than any other nexus phone I'd had, and until Android 7 came out I felt like it was a piece of crap; thankfully that update smoothed performance (or perception) out A LOT for me.

[JustUhThought]

Agreed. Between this and dropped support for Moto G/E, Google is proving to be super flaky, and which has diminished my desire to invest in any of their hardware.

[maxerickson]

Google sold the Motorola phone division to Lenovo. Are you talking about something that happened before that?

[JustUhThought]

Just saying they generally don't gollow through. Selling off a company would fall under this umbrella. Boston Dynamics anyone. Google is basically the head "mean girl". Bitch will drop you in a second if you're cramping her style.

[matart]

What would you go with instead? I am also a Nexus 5 user looking for an upgrade of some sort.

[morsch]

If the 650 USD sticker price (which inevitably end up being 700+ EUR) turns out to be true, I'm getting a Chinese phone, most likely a Xiaomi Mi5. I want updates from Google, but not to the tune of an extra 400 EUR. The OnePlus 3 is fine if you can handle 5.5".

[x0x0]

I'm in the same boat as gp -- my Nexus 5 is dying, and I'm looking for something similar for under $500. The OnePlus 3 looks perfect, except they have a history of lying about android updates (promising rapid release then taking 7-8 months).

I don't think Google's new Pixel strategy will work well for them. My opinion is Android is inferior to Apple on almost every dimension and I own an android because it was $400 instead of $1k for iphone (7 is $650 + $100 for more than 32g storage + case + 3-5 headphone cables + applecare + tax). So I was hoping for a Pixel that was a good replacement for my Nexus 5 which just decided that using bluetooth should reboot the phone...

[soylentcola]

I guess I'm more of an Android "fan" in that I prefer it over iOS in general after using both fairly extensively. As is the norm, I find iOS to be a bit more polished than Android but a bit less forgiving when I want to do something that isn't the default behavior.

Granted these are more generalizations but they're a bit of a cliche for a reason. Still, the combination of a bit more flexibility and the ability to buy a Nexus (or that one time, a Moto X) for $350-450 instead of $650 and up for an iPhone has kept me in the Android camp for the past several years.

I've also been holding off on replacing my Nexus 5 and will still wait to see just what the word is on these new Pixel phones but I will say that the higher, more iPhone-like price means I'm likely to be less forgiving of minor issues or complaints that I'd just deal with on a device that costs 2/3 as much.

Just as my Asus laptop has a worse screen than a similar Macbook sold at the time but cost $950 instead of $2200 for otherwise similar specs, I have no problem accepting some tradeoffs for the right price. But if that Asus had be marked at $1950 compared to the $2200 Macbook, I might have just gone with the better viewing angles and better support record.

Still, it's all just speculation. We all make our purchasing decisions after we get a chance to evaluate all of the options. Until the devices and reviews show up, it's all a bit premature.

[mafuyu]

Check out the OnePlus 3. It's a "flagship killer" at a low price. I have one and it's excellent.

[Spidler]

how's their update schedule for Security fixes and OS versions?

How botched are their security lockdown of their phones compared to the Nexus line?

Can't seem to find a list of CVE's fixed with each update (not in their changelogs, that they only post on the forum...) , based on that, they do not fix known security problems.

[mkaziz]

I was waiting for the Pixels, but the OnePlus 3 looks awesome for the price! How is the camera on that phone? I remember researching OnePlus 2 a while back, and it was the camera that killed it for me.

[mafuyu]

The camera is much improved from the OnePlus 2. AnandTech did a review here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/10411/the-oneplus-3-review/5

[PascLeRasc]

But are they still doing that ridiculous "invite-only" buying model? I really wanted to get a OnePlus One when it came out but they wouldn't ever let me give them money for one.

[l33tfr4gg3r]

Not anymore, AFAIK. Starting with the OP3 they switched to an instant purchase model.

[TimWolla]

They don't.

[mabramo]

Same. I was waiting for the Pixel to release so I could hop on Google FI, but if the smaller device is more than $300, you can count me out. I'll just purchase a used Nexus 5X.

[mark_l_watson]

That is what I am waiting for also. Google Fi looks good, and would save a ton of money over Verizon, with more flexibility. I didn't care about having a premium phone though. My 2 1/2 year old Note 4 is perfect for my needs, so I might forget about switching to Fi. It does seem strange that if Google ants to grow Fi that they wouldn't have a low cost entry point.

[mkozlows]

That is not an accurate description of the Pixel C. It's an excellent Android tablet. That some reviewers don't want Android tablets is a separate issue.

[JohnTHaller]

It's a quite good Android tablet now. At launch, it was pretty messy. Part of this was because it was supposed to be a Chrome OS tablet but got rushed out as an Android tablet before Android even had split screen. Yes, the OS matters if it limits the hardware. It has 4 mics but didn't even support Google's always on at launch (seriously?). Add to that the fact that the hardware was pretty buggy at launch with lots of users complaining about random reboots and failures.

Ars Technica has a good summary in their "One year later" review of the Pixel C. The reviewer is on his 3rd Pixel C due to hardware failures. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/09/one-year-later-can-an...

[mkozlows]

Some units were buggy at launch, clearly. Most weren't. I bought one day one, and still have it; it's been fine the whole time. And yes, it didn't have split screen at launch -- no Android tablet did until Android 7, so that's not some special failing of the Pixel C.

[Splendor]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but you didn't really counter anything in the previous post.

[LeifCarrotson]

One said it launched barely functional, the other said it's an excellent Android tablet. Those are very different.

[jjnoakes]

Is it not true that it could have launched barely functional and updates worked out the kinks so that now it is an excellent tablet?

[blinkingled]

I doubt many people will buy a $649 phone with run of the mill specs and only 18 months of updates even if it was made by Google (whatever that means).

Google might not remember but nobody bought the Chromebook Pixel or the Pixel C.

[hammock]

All(?) of the top-end Androids in the Verizon store are priced at $650 and above.

[pjmlp]

In countries where we have the joy of buying phones without contracts, the majority of the customer, doesn't go above the 300€ line, when paying the full price out of their pockets.

[kbenson]

The last few years I've not been offered a contract, but the ability to finance the phone. An inversion of the prior contract model, it's more what you expect. There are separate fees for the service, and for the monthly payment for the phone. After X number of months (choosable on purchase, affects per-month phone payment), the phone is paid off and is no longer part of the bill. It's much more straightforward and easy to reason about, and you don't have to immediately try to upgrade when your contract is up so you don't feel like you're paying for more than you're getting.

[pjmlp]

That is the old model we had with pre-paid in Portugal back when mobile phones were introduced, however they were locked to the provider and it was a fight to get them unlocked at the end of the leasing time.

Eventually our version of FCC got around making it easy to complain if an operator would make someone's life hard regarding unlocking.

[maxerickson]

Verizon has at least broken the phone payments out, so a customer can compare the upfront price and a purchase contract. I guess the others have also.

Their advertising is still ridiculously misleading. They say the "Verizon Plan" starts at $35 a month, but that's before activating a device (which is $10 for a tablet and $15 for a phone) and taxes/fees. Cheapest phone is going to be ~$55 per month, it's ridiculous that they emphasize the $35 in their advertising.

[tamana]

That's great, but they arent buying top-end phones then, and they have lots of optona, so new premium phone announcements aren't interesting.

[JustUhThought]

Cause people be sane.

[blinkingled]

That's what people buy - whatever is in the carrier store and whatever they see on TV ads. Besides isn't there a monthly plan most carriers offer?

I mean with Project Fi the Pixel phones could be a equally attractive deal for Regular Joe but they would still have to advertise it heavily and offer better value through extended updates.

[viraptor]

Why 18? Nexus line had 3 years of support and still continues to receive security updates after that.

[SCdF]

Where do you get that three years of support figure from? The only official numbers I've ever heard was 18 months, which lines up roughly with my experience.

I have a N5, which came out (just) less than three years ago, and it is not getting Nougat, which was released a few weeks ago. The last major update it got was around a year ago.

AFAICT with Google you're guaranteed to get the next OS version, if you're lucky you'll get the next next one (like N5 did with MM), but that's it.

Which, compared to iOS, feels pretty stingy.

[mkozlows]

Two years of major-release support, and three years of security support: http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/08/05/google-announces-new...

[SCdF]

Right, so still pretty bad compared to iOS: iOS10 just came out and supports the iPhone 5, which was released 4 years ago. I presume if they had some massive security issue they'd backport it to versions of iOS older than 10.

(I am no iOS fanboy, but honestly I'm sick of the android expectation of getting a new phone every 2 years, and they seem to be the only ones who are even pretending to give a shit with their old phone support. They still don't give as many shits as I'd like, but I cannot find their better).

[mkozlows]

Don't look at it from the time the phone started being sold, look at it from the time the phone stopped being sold. Android and iOS are very comparable then. The difference is that Apple keeps selling old models (at high prices) for three years.

[mikeash]

I don't think Apple typically releases security updates for older versions of iOS, although they do for the Mac. I don't see any iOS 8 updates available after 9 shipped, for example:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222

I believe your overall point remains valid, though. The most recent hardware that can't update to iOS 9 is the iPhone 4, which shipped five years before iOS 9, and was last sold 3 years ago.

[zastrowm]

And for the official source: https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705?hl=en#nexus_...

[hocuspocus]

> If true, this would mean the old Nexus line is well and truly dead and Google is taking the Apple approach to pricing.

What old Nexus line are you talking about?

Most[1] Nexus phones have been priced high at launch with fairly average specs, if not disappointing.

I believe the 6P is the one truly high-end Nexus, and then there's the 5X that was grossly overpriced everywhere but in the US, and finally the Nexus 4 and 5 which were very good deals from the get-go.

[1] Nexus One, Nexus S, Galaxy Nexus, Nexus 6