[tomasandrle]

It must be really hard to maintain and add features to such a huge old application. Platforms have changed underneath it, the devices and services it connects to have come and gone, Objective C has changed a lot as well. And then there's the Windows version...

Still, iTunes is crap. I hated it so much that I wrote my own music player for iOS, just to avoid using iTunes for putting music on my phone [1].

My guess is that sooner or later, iTunes will be dismantled and the features will be split into multiple smaller apps. There will be a music app that JUST plays music from the Apple Music account, a podcast app that JUST plays podcasts, a sync app that JUST helps you manage stuff on your phone etc. Some features will be removed (Internet radio, ripping & burning CDs). And of those that remain, only a few will need to keep a Windows counterpart. That way, things will be easier to maintain.

[1] Tiny Player: https://itunes.apple.com/app/id1140849233

[novaleaf]

(My Opinion): This is a business decision. The user is a captive audience (no alternatives available), so Apple has a disincentive to optimize anything other than profit generators.

And it's not just Apple. In Google Play, try housekeeping your app collection, or re-install a specific app on a new device. It's technically possible, but the more apps you have installed in the past, the harder it gets.

[baldfat]

(My Opinion) All of Apple's 40,000 foot view is walled garden. iTunes, DRM Wireless Headphones etc..

[neotek]

What DRM wireless headphones?

[jjawssd]

No more analog-only headphones on the new iPhone. DRM capable digital to analog adapters coming in 3...2...1...

[neotek]

Apple is the company that forced every major label that wanted to have its music on iTunes to abandon DRM, what possible motivation would they have for wanting to bring it back?

[Tinyyy]

It's kinda disingenuous to make wild speculations like that.

[baldfat]

That isn't wild speculations.

All Non-Apple Lighting Cables require a official chip from Apple. So Tim Cook might say that DRM is wild speculation it is actually happening now with all their cables.

So in order to buy a adapter I MUST buy a cable with a chip from Apple that makes it authorized.

EDIT : I guess EFF are wild speculators?

"To its credit, Apple has been adamant it won’t use the new design to restrict your listening experience. But therein lies the problem: you shouldn’t have to depend on a manufacturer’s permission to use its hardware however you like (or, for that matter, to build your own peripherals and accessories for it)."

Currently "it’s impossible to connect a speaker or other audio device to an iPhone without Apple software governing it"

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/09/analog-last-defense-ag...

[neohaven]

How do you do DRM on analog?

[baldfat]

what analog output is there? It is now removed.

[andyzweb]

fMRI + thought-crime enforcement bureaus

[massysett]

I think Apple would have split up iTunes long ago if it were only a Mac application, but they don't want to distribute a bunch of smaller Windows apps.

[tomasandrle]

Sure. Hopefuly "a bunch" could be reduced to just two: Apple Music client and iPhone sync app. The rest would be removed without a replacement (on Windows). The headphone jack removal shows that Apple is willing to make people angry about some things for a long term benefit and iTunes is imho a good candidate for the next "act of courage", heh.

[TorKlingberg]

Could they drop the iPhone sync app completely? These days the iPhone should be able to do all the syncing it needs directly against the internet.

[intoverflow2]

Not everyone lives in SV, not everyones internet connections can handle uploading then downloading 10s/100s of gigs of media

[csydas]

Maybe, but I think there's still some value to a controlled management application for either a large volume or to at least ensure that it's not a faulty wireless connection. It's a lot easier to move a few hundred gig over lightning than it is over wifi, and that first impression is probably going to be the biggest.

Then again, if they do go towards a totally wireless phone, I guess it would only be sensible to just ditch the lightning port entirely. and have a fully sealed case.

Still, I'd be pretty happy to have a stand-alone sync/management app; right now I use iTunes as an staging ground just to make sure that whatever goes on the phone looks right in iTunes first (correct tagging, correct album artwork). I don't mind it in this function, but if I could I would do away with it.

[Willamin]

A stand-alone management application for large volume already exists (intended for business and schools that issue Apple devices): https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/apple-configurator-2/id10371...

[csydas]

Well, I was more meaning like moving 20+ gig of music or other data, not for managing devices. As far as I know, the apple configurator is more of a management tool not an individual device tool (for sending media)

[Klathmon]

isn't itunes still needed in some "recovery" situations? Like fixing a bad update, backing up/restoring a phone, and (not quite along the same lines, but important to me) allowing install of in-dev applications.

I guess some of those could be handled by going into an apple store, but I'd still be a bit peeved if they removed the lifeline to my phone as a cost cutting measure.

[TorKlingberg]

I have been using TestFairy to try in-dev applications. It has been fine without iTunes, but I don't develop on iOS myself.

[mgkimsal]

a dedicated "update/restore" client makes more sense, in that case. Not saying it can't also be bundled in itunes, but something with, say, a bit more diagnostic view when run separately would be nice/useful, and not stop the general purpose use cases in iTunes.

[wang_li]

> These days the iPhone should be able to do all the syncing it needs directly against the internet.

If Apple provided a documented set of APIs to allow me to setup my own server then this would make sense. As it is, I see no reason why apple should hold my backups on their systems, why they should have any involvement with my syncing of data to my phone.

[apaprocki]

Maybe I'm in the minority but I still use it to sync a bunch of stuff off my NAS to my devices. I wish there was a better way to do it, but the wifi sync at home is about as good as I can get given the restrictions.

[puddintane]

You still have speed issues with certain areas.

I'm no expert of course but areas like the south in the United States are still stuck on DSL lines and even older technology.

I would think that this would be reasoning for not doing that yet.

[jjawssd]

My ISP limits my internet usage to 5 GB a month unless I pay a lot more money (Verizon Wireless)

[Marazan]

I really don't think they would. iTunes has been awful for pretty much the entirety of it's existence. It's not Windows stopping it being magically wonderful.

[asveikau]

Is that so? Some years ago I remember some rando's blog post that seemed to completely invent this narrative from thin air, and it got repeated a lot by Apple fans who have never built Windows applications and probably grossly overestimate its cost. This seems like a pretty lame excuse for one of the world's most powerful companies to not do something it would otherwise want to do.

[massysett]

I don't guess it's a cost issue. iTunes is the Apple trojan horse into the Windows platform. They know that they can get anything onto a Windows desktop by crammng it into this one application. My guess is that strategically they don't want to give this up.

[asveikau]

So you don't think apple can break up the app into various components and provide a single installer and call the whole bundle "iTunes".

And failing that, you don't think users are capable of installing multiple things or coping with a re-brand.

But if they did this only on the Mac all these things would work. Windows is the key.

Sorry, I do not think this is the reason. More likely they just don't want to put resources into a ground up overhaul of iTunes.

[kalleboo]

> My guess is that sooner or later, iTunes will be dismantled and the features will be split into multiple smaller apps

I've been hoping for this for ages, but looking at the new Music app on iOS I guess I should be careful what I wish for. At least iTunes isn't that bad.

[Ntrails]

I've been listening to music by artists, playing albums in whatever random order iTunes/music deigned to give them in. It's not perfect as I'd like them to be in release order, but never mind.

Updated to ios 10, that feature no longer exists. I can "shuffle" an artists songs, or listen to them in alphabetical order. That seems to be it. Thanks so much.

[Marazan]

People have been saying that for years (the dismantling of iTunes is near) yet Apple keep on shoving more shit into it.

[ForFreedom]

@tomasandrle How do I add music?

When I toggle "ENABLE UPLOADS", "no network available" error pops out

[tomasandrle]

You need to be on WiFi. Open a desktop browser and point it to the URL that the app gives you in the Upload tab or get the Tiny Loader Mac app (http://www.catnapgames.com/tiny-loader/) to just drag & drop files and folders - it finds your phone automatically using Bonjour.

If you still have problems please msg me directly or tweet @catnapgames, thanks.

[ForFreedom]

Just realized that... thanks

also if you could get the app to move all music from iTunes on the iPhone to TinyPlayer it would be great.

Can I create play lists?

[tomasandrle]

Ah, no real playlists, it's really just folders. You can swipe left on library items to "enqueue", that's about it. As for loading music you could try dragging the contents of ~/Music/iTunes/iTunes Media/Music onto the Loader.. I've tested with quite large folders. Moving from the iPhone Music app is not supported, I might look into that later.