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by AYBABTME 3568 days ago
It's a weird argument. Not only do US people want a hero, but the hero must suffer.
2 comments

Is that a surprise in the Christian context?
Yes. Christians do not wish to be like Judas, Pilate, etc.
I was referring to the need for a martyr. Though if you are biblically minded, then by allowing Snowden to be crucified we are bringing a curse upon ourselves, cf Barabbas.
No, the "hero" (and I don't think Snowden is one, but I am biased from personal experience) should, if he believes himself to be in the right, defend himself in front of a jury of his peers. That's not the same thing as "suffering"; that's how the judicial system works.
Except, of course, that the law he is charged under -- the Espionage Act of 1917 -- does not permit a public interest defense.

Would you also say that James Clapper should stand trial for perjury?

Why? What's the connection between believing one's actions to be right and surrendering to the justice system? Especially if he believes, no doubt correctly, that he would be found guilty and punished severely.
Would you say the same if the hero was from Russia or North Korea or Syria?

Would it be OK to leak documents from there and then flee their judicial systems?

I would definitely support someone outing and then fleeing Russia. In fact we do it all the time - it's called political asylum.
An impartial jury would be bound to rule him guilty, because he did break a law.

It doesn't mean that he's not a hero, though, because many people didn't even know it was the law until he did. And that it is a bad law.

But no, he doesn't have an obligation to suffer to prove that he had a point.

Juries have many times chosen to take a more holistic view of the law, determining that sometimes prosectution is not in the public interest, known as jury nullification.

See especially the case of a British leaker: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Ponting

Juries are in no way bound to find even the most egregiously culpable defendants guilty of committing a crime. Choosing not to do so is not claiming the person did not break the law, but a claim that the law itself was wrong.

It happens every once in a while and is an important feature, not bug of the American judiciary.

Jury nullification is a right, yes. However, jury instruction will very deliberately claim otherwise, and most people do follow it (and if, during jury selection, anyone hints at understanding what it is, they will almost certainly be excused). So realistically it's a very inefficient check.
> An impartial jury would be bound to rule him guilty

Then why are you pushing this lie forward? You should be doing your part to inform Americans of their rights, not mislead and disempower them.

I consider jury nullification to be a right. I don't consider it to be a moral duty. An impartial jury, from that perspective, is the one that rules according to the law as written.

(I wouldn't do so - but I wouldn't consider myself impartial, either.)

An impartial jury would recognize that breaking that law was the right thing to do because the law was wrong and unjust, and therefore should be abolished. It's not like the US legal system came down from heaven.