[happychappy]

I phrased that wrong, but I'm not sure how else to phrase it. I suspect we violently agree, but if you want to take this offline I think my email is in my profile

I have a remote team, spread across the western seaboard of the US. I don't track hours, I don't do the whole "burn-down chart" crap. I keep almost no metrics about my team's productivity. As a result, my team are all far higher performing than I ever was as an engineer. If higher-ups want an assessment of my team's abilities, I'll figure out a way to give them what they seem to want that is truthful to my beliefs.

The employment contract says 40 hours, and our timesheet system will freak if you enter less than 40 hours, and of course you mustn't lie on your timesheet (hello HR! :) ) but what hours you work and when are up to you. My only caveat is that if another team member needs your help in office hours, you need to be able to talk to them and help them. The business pays for 40 quality hours, thats the rule. But nothing is black or white...

If you're "at work" but really you're on hacker news - as I am right now - then I'm not getting "quality" brain time.

Believe it or not, there are people in the world who'll spend 1 hour working, 7 hours on hacker news, then shut their laptop and demand that the rest of their time is out of bounds of work.

Honestly, though, those people are so easy to spot and manage. They're the ones who do deliver what I ask, but never more. They'll spend 3 days writing a post function, not because it took 3 days but because thats how much time I seemed to agree with in the estimate.

There are other people, who'll maybe spend 1 hour on a post function and say "done, whats next?"

There are others still who'll spend 1 hour and say "Hey, boss, the post function is done, but this entire framework is kinda crap, mind if I take three days to look at what else is out there?"

There are others still who'll spend 1 hour and say "Hey, boss, the post function is done, but its kind of weird for the users, how about we do this instead?"

Those last 2 types of people seem to enjoy life more, they're happier in themselves and I'll fight tooth and nail for anything they want. If they really work 30 hours a week, get their shit done and don't let any team members down: who cares, the lying on the timesheet issue is the only problem and I'll cover for them the best I can if they get caught. But the best folks will generally happily work 40 hours, and the 10 or so extra hours - I've found - are best "given" to them to do with as they wish.

The first person (the person who spent 1 hour on code and 3 days on netflix) might be temporarily useful to get code written, but really they're not worth hiring. Yes - I know - its my fault - I should get better estimates - I should follow up - I should write out requirements better. But that person is getting seriously out-shined every day by their team - who (lets be honest) know they're slacking - and that person at the very least is going to first on any chopping block. But more likely I'll work with HR to get rid of them.

The other one - the one that says when they're done and asks for more work - that person I'll try to coach into thinking for themselves more so in future they say "I've done the post function, now i'll go ahead and write the get/delete etc and document it, and there's a new unit test package i'd like to fiddle with"...

Now - to join back along with your comment - "We should accommodate workers such that they can cultivate a fruitful and creative mental state for use in employment when inspiration and flow is most likely to strike"

In my head I have an expression that I can't quite get into language - let people be people, let them be the best they can, and compensate them enough so that their best is directed towards the business - the thing that also compensates me for being the best I can be. but Don't demand more than that, don't try to take ALL their best time, don't try to elbow out their family or their hobbies etc. It needs to be voluntary, given. Not in a contract somewhere, demanded. It can be done, I've seen it, even in a big ole faceless corporation you can make a team perform just by shaping the environment to work for humans, rather than spreadsheets.

[bendixso]

You seem awesome to work for. Need an iOS developer?

Your style totally matches mine.

[cookiecaper]

I understand, and I think that you're right that we probably mostly agree with each other. I just have a few nits to pick.

>if you want to take this offline I think my email is in my profile

Your account appears to be a throwaway and doesn't contain an email address.

>My only caveat is that if another team member needs your help in office hours, you need to be able to talk to them and help them.

What are "office hours"? Unfortunately, this is tantamount to an ordinary dictated work schedule. If you can't say "Hey, I'll get to this in [some period of time > 30 mins and < 24 hours]" without getting in hot water, you might as well stay tethered to your desk during whatever "office hours" are. I know this from experience working "set your own hours" jobs that expected near-immediate response times between "core business hours". It's just a normal schedule.

I would say the only schedule expectation should be attendance at specific, pre-planned meetings, barring emergency needs. If you have a colleague that needs a video chat or real-time communication and you're not able to run into each other naturally, I would say it should be scheduled, just like anything else. As long as time can be made within 24 hours, I don't think there's a big issue there. Even in remote environments (and I've been a full-time remote worker for over 10 [non-consecutive] years), extemporaneous meetings are too often a distraction and a drain on productivity.

I understand that's a lot of freedom to give employees and that not all of them can handle it. In those cases, I would suggest the privilege be removed in specific instances rather than assuming that no employee can handle this responsibility.

>If you're "at work" but really you're on hacker news - as I am right now - then I'm not getting "quality" brain time.

I've always encouraged my subordinates to spend a (paid) hour or two every so often reviewing the industry news in trade outlets like HN. Staying abreast of industry developments and engaging with the discussion about them as they emerge makes everyone a much more effective programmer. I wouldn't say it's not quality brain time.

Tech employees are knowledge workers. Expanding their knowledge is absolutely beneficial to you and its importance shouldn't be discounted.

Obviously, 7 out of 8 hours per day is excessive.

>They'll spend 3 days writing a post function, not because it took 3 days but because thats how much time I seemed to agree with in the estimate.

While I agree that laziness is a potential explanation for this type of behavior, there are several other factors that can cause it, like an employee's feeling that their input isn't considered trustworthy or valuable. In the real world, please don't discount potential explanations that aren't laziness, especially if the employee has a good track record at other employers.

>who cares, the lying on the timesheet issue is the only problem and I'll cover for them the best I can if they get caught.

First, most employees who do this work aren't going to be filling out a timesheet. Are you talking about contractors? I'm confused why they're not paid a regular salary.

Second, sometimes you just have to understand that there's a translation barrier here and what the HR dept really means when they ask to affirm a 40-hour work week is "Did you honestly provide the expected amount of value to the company this week?", to which the truthful answer is "Yes." (This is especially true if you're monopolozing a chunk of time known as "office hours" and demanding that people be available within that timeframe -- I would say that should count as paid even if they don't have anything to respond to. You're still consuming their availability.) While people may be entering a literal value that isn't commensurate with the literal reality it appears to represent, the intent and spirit of the question has been correctly fulfilled. Thus, it's improper to call this a "lie", especially when, as already discussed, the 40 hours put in by conventional office workers are so clearly half-hearted, even resentful.

Other than this, it sounds like we're in pretty good agreement.