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by drostie 3569 days ago
I am very happy to see this at least bring up one of the most strange parts of Everett's many-worlds (and others' "many-minds") theories: that in them, you are immortal; for there always exists a possible world which you didn't lose consciousness in, and your final consciousness will only propagate into those worlds.

Searle's objection still seems to hold some water, though. Consciousness does not seem to be a computation because whether something is a computation is observer-relative; for some observers this set of electrical flickering makes sense as a computation to produce a sunflower-like pattern of points based on emitting branches in directions of (pi * the golden ratio) radians... but for the vast majority of observers probably it doesn't seem like anything until I print out a picture of the result; and even then it might not mean anything to those observers (they might be blind, or they might not associate it with sunflowers, or they might have alien brains so differently wired from mine that they simply cannot appreciate art the way that humans can). We actually have formally defined computation to be observer-relative in precisely the way that the status of what words a book contains and what those words together mean is observer-relative (think that in some other parallel universes the English language was exactly the same but that the words for 'cat' and 'dog' were transposed, and so this same book tells a somewhat different story in those worlds).

The problem is that my two bunnies seem to be quite conscious, to say nothing of myself or my girlfriend. It's not just that they're conscious-relative-to-me-but-it-depends-who's-looking... if that's true then it's a very different perspective which almost nobody takes seriously and practices. My bunnies just seem to be conscious, full stop. They appear to have both interests and the capacity to feel pain (observer-relative consciousness), but it appears to be more than just an appearance! In some sense they are objective observers who their own consciousness is relative to; therefore they are objectively conscious in a way that computations just don't seem to be objectively anything.

The hope of the functionalist approach to consciousness, with its common-sensical "anything which could replace this airy-fairy consciousness stuff in all of its functional roles would be equally justified to be called conscious," is therefore that as processes with no-intrinsic-meaning become more complex and more involved, there is some way to say "no, the parts of that don't have much intrinsic meaning by themselves, but you put them together and then this thing is objectively computing X or Y, there is just no other way for an observer to view it, it has passed a complexity threshold beyond which there is only one interpretation of it." Our books, with the cat <-> dog substitution looming in our minds, clearly don't pass this threshold by-and-large, but perhaps things more complicated processes than those books' narratives can?

4 comments

The premise about computation being observer-relative overestimates how much meaning we read into a system, and underestimates how much we read out of it. When two 1kg bags of sand land on a lever and counterbalance the one 2kg bag at the other end, that has an objective, logical, correspondence-based meaning that transcends observers. When a domino computer "executes" - same. When a silicon computer computes - same. As the computer gets more complex, it becomes harder to intuit how the physical working is objectively a computation, but this proceeds by straightforward extension from the bags of sand.

We can certainly attach semantics to the numbers (e.g. saying this bit pattern represents dollars, or a spaceship's shield %), and that is observer-relative. But that is completely different from categorizing or understanding a process as a computation in general, in terms of logic.

I'll stop short of implying that it's the same for the human brain, because nobody should be pretending to understand the brain at this point in history. However, this does provide a way to see how it could be true for the brain, if it is ever determined that the brain is precisely equivalent to a computer.

Sorry, what is the "objective, logical, correspondence-based meaning" that you're referring to? Moreover, you've already laden a lot of interpretation in there, "1kg" vs "2kg", "counterbalance".

Let me put it to you a different way: suppose that I put two bags of some substance on one side of a beam attached to a fulcrum, and one bigger bag containing a substance that looks similar, on the other side of the beam. Suppose that the beam continues to tilt such that the bigger bag is resting on the ground. There are definitely some observer-relative ways to read this situation; but is there an observer-independent way to read it, which goes beyond what I have already said about it in this paragraph?

I have trouble with the quantum immortality theory because people normally die in the 75-90 years range, and it would be supremely weird for you to just keep living while those around you all died, since in our reality humans tend to have similar lifespans.

I mean, I like the idea, but it just seems so implausible.

There's no problem with the statistics. It's understood that the worlds in which anybody is 200 years old are extremely few. The probability that you'll experience such a world is either 0 or too close to make a difference. But by an anthropic principle, somebody is experiencing those worlds.
consciousness can observe herself. the thought can't. the eyes can't observer himself. we should speak of autoconsciousness. the animal is consciousness but not autoconsciousness. the human can be autoconsciousness.
Not only that, there is also the issue of Qualia. This can put some light on behavior of the mind but it says nothing about Qualia.
we can speak of Qualia as attributes of consciousness?
we can speak also of continuosly consciousness? when we are unconscious, at the awakening whe have consciousness that we were unconscious: there is a part of us that is conscious also when we are unconscious otherwise we will not be conscoius of the unconsciousness.