[dragonwriter]

> you end up with some horrible URLs just so it's RESTful

No, you don't. RESTful applications use URLs as opaque identifiers, and communicate all information via resource representations. Communicating information via resource identifiers is decidedly not-RESTful, so any particular URL structure chosen to communicate specific information in the URL is, ipso facto, not RESTful.

[blowski]

I'll give a specific specific example from my own experience of building an intranet. I had documents that people could print.

    POST /documents/12345/print

To me, while this was not RESTful, it was the most readable way I came up with. When I asked somebody who had more experience with REST than me, he suggested I build the URL like this:

    POST /users/123/print-jobs

    url=/documents/12345

Doing this, I would have to add validation to make sure it was a printable URL. Also, there was no corresponding GET request, so it seemed pointless. And it made the code weirder, as the 'print' action would be separated from the rest of the actions on documents.

So how would you do it instead? Or you would do it the same way, and just not worry about the problem?

It seems that consensus on how to do REST breaks down when you have custom verbs.

[33degrees]

Why not

    POST /documents/12345/print-jobs

And you say there's not corresponding GET request, but maybe there should be? Perhaps you'd want to list print jobs, get the status of a particular job, and maybe cancel it?

[blowski]

I guess because it's not how I talk. I say "I'll print this document", not "I'll send this document to the printer".

I don't have a print queue because nobody has ever asked for one or shown the need for one.

[dragonwriter]

There are lots of aesthetic preferences like this about URLs, but calling them issues of "RESTful"-ness is just plain wrong. REST not only does not prescribe an approach to structuring URLs, it specifies a role for identifiers (URLs in the usual case of HTTP) which makes their construction irrelevant, and worrying about it contrary to the central concept of REST.

> When I asked somebody who had more experience with REST than me, he suggested I build the URL like this:

> POST /users/123/print-jobs

What was the logic: neither version is more RESTful, even if you ignore the role of URLs in REST and adopt what seems to be the usual definition of RESTful URLs used by people who use any coherent definition: the URL represents some logical hierarchy of resources.

In this case, your original "POST /documents/12345/print" implies a collection of print requests (I'd probably call it "prints" or "print-requests" rather than "print", but that's a minor quibble) pertaining to a particular document, to which a new request is added when the user wants to print the document. Sounds perfectly sensible.

The alternative offered suggests a list of print jobs belonging to a user, which is also sensible. But there is no strong reason to prefer one over the other.

And if you were actually RESTful, it wouldn't matter, because your resource representation for the print job/request would actually include both the URL and the user. (And maybe status and other information.)

Both your original (with no representation) and the alternative (with the user in the URL and the document in the resource representation) aren't RESTful because they have information that logically belongs to the resource in the URL and out-of-band context rather as part of the resource. But that's not a matter of URL construction, its fine for a URL scheme to correspond to information about the resources, as long as the information is actually still part of the resource.

> It seems that consensus on how to do REST breaks down when you have custom verbs.

If you have real custom verbs, then you may need to extend HTTP's set of methods (it wouldn't be the first time that has been necessary -- PATCH isn't a base HTTP/1.1 method.)

But there is a difference between a generic action on resources of the type represented by an HTTP method and an action-in-the-domain, and it sounds in your case "print" is an action in the domain, which is an event which should have a corresponding noun -- and thus a resource representation -- in the model. But while URLs are inherently hierarchical, real relationships in real domains are often webs, and so there's not one true way to map it into a hierarchy.