[rdtsc]

It might be important to keep in mind that there is a large difference between negotiating to buy a car and negotiating to work some place.

A lot of the stuff you read seems to be geared toward "buying a car" -- used top 10 tricks, outsmart somehow the dealer, maybe act like an asshole a bit, and you're leaving and never seeing them again.

I don't see it always working too well in job negotiations. Approaching it that way may backfire. So you "tricked" your future manager to give you a $50k more. In the end though, if they feel they didn't get a good deal because you oversold yourself, you won't have a good time eventually. The last thing you want to do is end up starting work and already having a target on your back, because the owner / manager feels a bit swindled by your "tactics".

Surely you can end up in a large organization, maybe slip through the cracks, but in the end, you better be sure you can deliver according to what you are paid.

[mattm]

There are two types of negotiations.

One where it is a one off deal and you will probably never work with the person again.

The other is where you are entering into a business arrangement that requires ongoing cooperation.

The same techniques cannot be applied to both. Unfortunately a lot of negotiation advice doesn't specify which situation it is better applied to but it's worth keeping in mind.

[UweSchmidt]

I have observed differently: Salary negotiations seem to happen in a different reality than the rest of a company's operation.

Businesses will "underpay" if possible, but also readily "overpay" if the person brings in certain skills and if makes sense from a business perspective in that very moment.

I have not noticed underpaid people getting more respect or better opportunities than the others.

[pandaman]

Most companies employing programmers do not want employees to know each other salary. This means that if you are an individual contributor applying to such a company then your manager is not going to know your salary at all. The salary is going to be negotiated with somebody higher up, whose reports are other managers and not ICs. I would not worry about this.

[r00fus]

Are you kidding? I would be highly surprised if a manager didn't have access to the budget impacts of his/her direct reports.

Where is this place where such info is hidden? Because I definitely don't want to work there.

[pandaman]

I've never had a salary negotiation with a future direct manager. And I've worked/interviewed in quite a few game companies as well as some non-gamie ones like Google and Microsoft.

[aeling]

I didn't interview with my current boss, but he definitely knows my total comp down to the dollar and stock/bonus/salary split - I've seen it on his screen during annual performance & bonus reviews. This is at a big 5 company.

[pandaman]

Well, it's a company, which does not care that employees know each other salary then.

[dpark]

There are very few companies that keep salaries secret from managers. My manager knows exactly how much I make and how much everyone under me makes. His manager has the same visibility a level higher. What he doesn't know is how much his peers make or how much anyone in his peers' orgs make.

Salary secrecy can't really extend to managers unless you want your managers to do a poor job rewarding people. How's it supposed to work when someone comes to their manager and asks for a raise? "I think I'm underpaid and want a 10% raise." "Well, I don't know what you or anyone else makes so I have no idea if you're underpaid. Deal with it I guess."

[guitarbill]

> So you "tricked" your future manager to give you a $50k more

In big companies, the managers don't have too much input, and no skin in the game. Plus, it isn't a "trick" and negotiating isn't unprofessional - it's just business.