[ank_the_elder]

Well let's see... do you mean giving them Judea and Samaria (ancient Jewish land now dubbed 'the West Bank'?) That sounds like a great deal to me, to be honest.

EDIT: if you are downvoting this, please explain where I'm wrong in a reply - let's have a discussion.

[FireBeyond]

And regularly turning off power and fresh water to the entire territory, a territory that is surrounded by barbed wire and tanks? Regularly denying these people the right to travel, within their community or internationally, for no other reason other than arbitrary action or reaction?

Forgive many people for not finding that as great a deal as you seem to believe it.

[ank_the_elder]

Whether you like it or not, Israel has the right to defend itself.

When you live next to a chunk of land controlled by a terrorist group that wants nothing but your destruction, fires rockets from hospitals and has no concept of the value of human life, you do everything you can to protect your population.

You would do the same - and, in fact, your country does the same. It's only because Israel is a Jewish, pariah state that you bring this defensive act as if it was some sort of apartheid-like offense. You care not one iota for the same situation existing in other countries, nor do you compare likes to likes.

Every single country in the world does this - they protect their borders and they protect their people.

Blaming Israel for being a country is hateful and insane.

EDIT: And let's not forget that there's Egypt on the other side of Gaza. They do not count, do they? Or are they also an apartheid state?

[FireBeyond]

Let us be clear, here. I don't "hate Israel". I have a substantial disagreement with the actions of the current Israeli leadership, which in many ways I find repugnant and inhumane, as I do with the terrorist elements within Palestine, whose actions are also repugnant and inhumane.

Incidentally, even among Jews, my view point is not alone and many have expressed disdain for the extreme policies of the current government.

There is a hardline element in some of the Arab populace who takes a violent approach to Judaism (indeed, many other religions too) - this is regrettable at best, and unlikely to ever be removed.

One of Israel's biggest misgivings (and it's one of the US's) too is a failure to see how it's actions (or reactions) might contribute to the culture in Palestine, the rise of Hezbollah. Undoubtedly many in Palestine -would- love to live their lives freely, peacefully alongside Israel. But Israel's steadfast refusal to see how its approach to "solving" the problem makes enemies of those who might not otherwise support such an organization, but feel helpless. They are the civilians between two warring armies, no different to villagers in Colombia dealing with being between the various guerrilla groups, armies and narcos.

In fact you are guilty of it, too - turning power off to a country for two days because of a rocket attack is not in any way a defensive act. It does not limit the ability of Hezbollah to launch more rocket attacks, but it does limit the ability of the citizens of Palestine to live their lives.

My hope, and my belief is that there -is- a middle ground, that moderates on both sides (be that religious, political, sides of the wall) can and would like to live happily together and that that is achievable.

But it DOES require a change in strategy and tactics in order to succeed. By BOTH sides.

[ank_the_elder]

> There is a hardline element in some of the Arab populace who takes a violent approach to Judaism (indeed, many other religions too) - this is regrettable at best, and unlikely to ever be removed.

Hence why Israel needs to exist, and why it needs to be able to defend itself.

You are apparently unable to see your own thought to the end: if Israel stops defending itself as you suggest, its people will be massacred.

[vkou]

They live next to this chunk of land, because Israel took it at gunpoint. They had no right to do so, and they had no right to displace its occupants. In its current form, Israel has no right to exist, much less defend itself. It is an occupying power - morally, it is not much different from the Third Reich rolling into Warsaw, and corralling its Jewish residents into walled ghettos.

There are other forms in which it would, but the current one is not one of them. It must either end the occupation, or emancipate.

It is absolutely an apartheid offensive [1]. Palestinians have no freedom of movement in their own land. They are living in the world's largest internment camp.

[1] https://fasttimesinpalestine.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/fou...

[ank_the_elder]

Your statements show staggering ignorance - and your map is deceptive and false.

A common misperception is that all the Jews were forced into exile by the Romans after the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in the year 70 C.E. and then, 1,800 years later, the Jews suddenly returned to Palestine demanding their country back. In reality, the Jewish people have maintained ties to their historic homeland for more than 3,700 years. No matter how far they were scattered, they never gave up their rights or desire to return.

By the early 19th century—years before the birth of the modern Zionist movement—more than 10,000 Jews lived throughout what is today Israel. The 78 years of nation-building, beginning in 1870, culminated in the reestablishment of the Jewish State.

When many Jewish people returned to Israel in 1800s it was dry and barren. Today more than half of Israel is still desert. But Israelis are finding unique ways to make the desert bloom and prosper. “We are not the first but maybe one of the first nations ever who really found the way to cultivate the desert and make it bloom,” said Alon Badihi, executive director of the Jewish National Fund. JNF has developed and forested the land of Israel for more than 100 years.

The term “Palestine” is believed to be derived from the Philistines, an Aegean people who, in the 12th Century B.C.E., settled along the Mediterranean coastal plain of what are now Israel and the Gaza Strip. In the second century C.E., after crushing the last Jewish revolt, the Romans first applied the name Palaestinato Judea (the southern portion of what is now called the West Bank) in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land of Israel. The Arabic word Filastin is derived from this Latin name.