[ma138]

As a previous Jira user I have come across all the problems in this article. But the biggest problem with Jira, and all similar applications is that developers just don't want to use it - as a PM you either end up having to force a tool on the team or try and work from inaccurate data (which involves lots of asking for status updates rather than getting them async from the tool)

This is actually why we created ZenHub[1] to take this work flow to the makers rather than the managers.

We find this provides higher quality data and improves productivity by reducing context switching. Im interested to hear everyones thoughts about this integrated approach vs siloed tools like Jira. In my biased opinion the days of having a separate tool for this are numbered (see also the GitLab issue board release)

[1] https://www.zenhub.com/

[taftster]

Problem with Zenhub is that it's tied to github. It would be much better if it were independent of any git hosting platform. If you make Zenhub run against Stash or Gitlab, then we're talking about something useful to markets that can't/don't use github.

[briandear]

Love Zenhub. Hate Jira. I think many PMs forget that the first word in project management is PROJECT. They get it backwards and we end up with process for process sake rather than a process that complements how developers actually develop.

[seanjregan]

That's why we highly value flexibility on JIRA. Forcing a terrible workflow on people is a sin. At the same time, we've always gotta help keep people from over complicating things.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

At a cursory glance, it seems to be GitHub specific. Any plans for BitBucket or GitLab support?

[ma138]

Right now we are focused on getting the experience right in GitHub, but I agree that an ultimate solution must allow teams the choice of which source control system they want to use.

We get lots of feature requests for GitLab and BitBucket support so those are two likely points to integrate with next.

[conradfr]

As a dev I don't mind Jira that much (I try to use it the most basic way possible) but I often get remarks, especially during daily scrum meetings, that I don't update my tickets enough.

Well OK but at that point it is kind of redundant with DSMs anyway ... but I guess it fulfills product owners micro-management fantasy land.

[kschrader]

One thing that we've built[1] is a way to hook a Branch to a story (by including the story ID in the branch name, which also starts it) which causes all of the commits on the branch to feed into the ticket and allows you to use Pull Requests and Merges to change the state (i.e. "Open Pull Request -> Move to Ready for Review).

Ticket update overhead sucks.

[1] https://clubhouse.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/207540323-Us...

[pjlegato]

Can we please stop prefixing "Zen-" onto things as a sort of trendy, cool "hey, it's well designed and simple" signifier?

It's borderline racist. Would you call a project management tool "Jewhub" or "Catholichub"?

[dragonwriter]

> It's borderline racist

No, its not. Zen isn't a race (or even ethnicity).

Its perhaps religiously insensitive to Zen Buddhists; I'm really not sure how they tend to view the fact that -- largely through non-religious philosophical works directly influenced from contact with, though not necessarily relaying the teachings of, Zen Buddhism -- rather than, e.g., hostile stereotyping of Zen Buddhism -- the term "zen" has taken on a more general sense of simplicity and minimalism in popular culture, which is actually what the name directly relates to.

[pjlegato]

Yes, it is. Zen as such is a religion and philosophy from Japan; it is intrinsically Japanese, by definition, just as Judaism is by definition intrinsically of the Hebrew ethnicity.

I am aware of the use the term has taken on in popular culture, divorced from its original context -- that's precisely what I'm complaining about.

This trend is nothing more than ongoing cultural appropriation of exotic cachet and a watered-down stereotyped design aestheic from a faraway foreign ethnicity, in order to seem cool and sophisticated to other westerners. Websites labeled Zenwhatever have nothing to do with actual zen. It's a philosophical blackface minstrel show.

That the stereotypes being promoted about an ethno-religious identity seem to be positive and flattering is irrelevant. Few people would call their accounting software "Jewbook" to trade on a supposedly positive and flattering image of Jews as prudent financial managers -- yet "Zenefits" is supposedly fine.

Indeed, 50 or 100 years ago, many people widely used the word "Jew" as an adjective in a positive and flattering sense related to "having business acumen" or "being a good negotiator," and when challenged offered very similar defenses to the one you just offered, about how "jew" had by then become a generic word for something good, divorced of its original context, and not a religious stereotype or insult in any sense.

In Japanese culture, incidentally, Zen is most typically associated with Japanese racial superiority ideology and far-right wing militarism. How ironic considering its cachet among young, cool progressive types in the west!

[ttam]

Actually wikipedia says that Zen is originally Chinese https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen

[mping]

if you dig further, it is indian: Dhyana -> Chan(na) -> Zen.