[ryandrake]

Almost all of these replies involve growing a side project at home while remaining employed. I was under the impression most employers (at least in tech) do not allow this. Aren't you worried that your former employer will come knocking when your successful, asserting ownership over what you built? Where do you find companies that are cool with this? I've asked about tolerance of side-projects during interviews and have always got very clear, unambiguous "Work on only our company's stuff or GTFO" responses.

Also curious about how many of the "saved <double digit> percent of my salary for years" stories happened in the Bay Area with its impossible cost of living. And if so, did you do this with a family? How? I consider my lifestyle extremely frugal, yet I couldn't imagine saving enough capital to start a business in 10 or even 20 years.

[apeace]

EDIT: I realized your question is probably about running a business on the side, not just writing code. My reply pertains to writing code.

I have been working at startups for a few years. I have made this work and been able to open-source both projects I do in my own time, and projects I built at work. Here is how I do it (note I am not a lawyer and not qualified to give legal advice):

* First step: always read your employment contract--the whole thing--before signing. Ask questions. Ask them to explain how software IP works in plain english (and in writing). All companies have lawyers, that's what they're paid for. I've never had anybody mind that I asked.

* Second step: do not sign a contract that grants IP to your company for software you wrote, on your time, on your own hardware, that is not directly competitive with the business. If this is the contract they give you, don't join the company. It's likely not enforceable, but you don't want to be in an IP lawsuit someday.

* Third step: list anything and everything you have on Github (public or private) in your exemptions. Contracts usually allow you to exempt anything you worked on before you joined.

* Final step: Write code! Do it on your own time, on your own hardware, and don't create anything that could be perceived as competing with the business. As a rule, I generally notify my boss (in writing) of _any_ side project I start working on, whether it's public or private. All he has to do is CC the lawyers, and they say "All clear, the business does not own that IP".

I may have been lucky in finding so many places that are "cool" about this. But mostly, I think it comes down to screening companies by talking about this up front.

[pre]

I've refused to sign employment contracts which push all "IP" into the employers ownership saying things like "You don't get to own my graphic-novel or my band's songs or whatever just coz you pay me to write some web-app"

I've never had them refuse to amend that clause in the face of that. Maybe it's different outside the UK.

If they did refuse to amend, I'd continue the job hunt basically. I probably don't wanna work for a company that inflexible anyway.

Also, contracting works well for owning your own IP. Contractor clients appreciate you have other clients too and don't usually even try to demand exclusive ownership of the product of your mind.

[bitwize]

I once had an employer try to get me to agree to let them use my name, voice, and likeness for any purpose whatever (including specifically for marketing purposes). I told them I refuse to let them use those things for any purpose outside the company and I got an amended contract that same day.

[bitwize]

Noncompetes are illegal in at least one state (California), difficult to enforce elsewhere, and usually severely limited in scope. For example if you worked for Uber, you could be barred from starting your own taxi or rideshare app on the side, but not from starting a healthcare services business or game studio.

I did have one company try to get me to sign a 10-year noncompete, upon pain of having to pay twice the market cap of the competing company. I am not shitting you. I tried pointing out why this was outrageous and unenforceable (what if I worked for PayPal?!) and they didn't seem to get it. So I told them to gtfo.

[groovy2shoes]

Beyond just echoing the sibling commentors RE: don't sign a contract with such a clause (I've personally never even been asked to sign one, out of 4 professional jobs post-university), I'd like to point out that there are much cheaper areas than Silicon Valley with bustling tech scenes.

I myself work in the Research Triangle Park in between Raleigh and Durham, North Carolina. The cost of living is low, and the starting salaries are slightly higher than what I've seen in the Northern Virginia / Washington, D.C. area. I was also able to climb the pay ladder fairly quickly in my so-far short career, and I'm making way more money than I need to facilitate my (admittedly rather humble, but comfortable) lifestyle.

Similar things can be said of the San Antonio, TX; Burlington, VT; even Fayetteville, AR; Fargo, ND; Twin Cities, MN; and many other places in the country you wouldn't necessarily associate with tech. One thing I learned the hard way is to always consider the cost of living when considering a job offer. $X is worth far more in Raleigh, NC, than it is in Washington, D.C..

[djsumdog]

Employees don't have any control over what you write on your own time. I think some older IBM contracts claimed they did, but if you sign one of these today, you're an idiot (and they're not enforceable).

[greggman]

I don't think this is entirely true, at least in most states in the USA. It's called "duty of loyalty" and it basically means you can't compete with your employer. Whats competition is gray but I'm sure you can imagine examples of shades that are clearly competition, shades that are clearly not, and all kinds of shades in the middle.

[pkd]

I think a lot of people renegotiate that clause so that they continue contributing to open source etc. I think companies are open to it as long as you do not use company resources to build what you are building.