[pdkl95]

We probably agree on quite a bit. I'm not trying to accuse you of victim blaming - or anything else - so if I have implied otherwise I apologize; that was not my intention. It wouldn't be my first miscommunication.

My reference to victim blaming was targeted at the the ideas in the thread - and often stated by Facebook and others in the surveillance industry - that people should know not to use Facebook when they have not had an opportunity to learn about how modern technology works. Education is a great idea, but that takes time. (I've been spending 20+ years trying to educate people about the internet, encryption, and privacy in the modern age)

> to be in general a pacifist. Those are nice claims to make.

I have the scars and hospital bill to prove it. Fortunately I was lucky and the (tool assisted) beating didn't do a lot of permanent damage.

> an action with which you say you see nothing wrong.

I never said I saw nothing wrong with it, only that Facebook should to accept what they do to others.

I do understand Facebook's business model. I also understand some of the VP-level people involved, because I taught some of them how to program. These are people that are perfect examples of being born into "privilege", who need some real experience in how the rest of the world actually lives. I don't wish them harm, but I won't shed a tear if they get harsh dose of reality.

(I've probably not worded this optimally; I'm trying to restrain my language because these people piss me off)

> I don't think Facebook lies when it says that such disclosures are accidental.

I'm sure they're telling the truth. I'm suggesting that they are being negligent in their use of automation. If they had any experience in the problems that most people face in the real world, they should have know that problems like at this doctor's office would have happened.

[throwanem]

I suspect you're right about the extent to which we probably agree. I also don't think it's so much that you implied I was victim blaming, as that I'm a bit more raw on this topic than I had suspected, and that made it easy for me to find cause for indignation where none in fact exists. I'll keep an eye on that in future; thanks for taking it so equably.

> I never said I saw nothing wrong with it

You said you have nothing against it. If there's a substantive difference between the two, I fail to see it. And while I can only consider it honorable, if admittedly also incomprehensible on a personal level, to choose to submit to a beating rather than betray a personal conviction on the subject of pacifism, it still seems at odds with such a conviction to advocate action which is well known often to result in the infliction of serious harm upon those who are its maleficiaries. I suppose it's possible there is a way to reconcile those, but if so, that's something else I currently fail to see.

On the other hand, it's clear that your perspective on at least some of the people we're discussing is vastly better informed than mine, and intellectual honesty would require that I respect that fact even were I otherwise disinclined to do so. The impression I've gathered in general is that most people who work for Facebook genuinely believe they're improving the world by doing so. Would it be accurate to say that that's especially true for the VP-level people you describe? And in general, it would be interesting to hear whatever else you'd like to describe about Facebook's internal culture and the effect it has on people who partake of it.

> I'm suggesting that they are being negligent in their use of automation

Another point on which we agree. I don't know that it merits the kind of punishment you seem willing to countenance. But I gather also that you're angry about this, in a way that I'm not, and that can easily produce a certain clarity of perspective.