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by tumdum_ 3576 days ago
https://www.cloudflare.com
2 comments

You mean the biggest MiTM on the web?[0]

The only reason why they're not constantly called out by serious infosec folk for their scam is because they hire guys also involved in DefCon/BlackHat planning (try to sneak a hostile talk against Cloudflare past REDACTED[2] who btw is also advising Mr. Robot). It's lobbying at its finest.

[0] https://scotthelme.co.uk/tls-conundrum-and-leaving-cloudflar...

[1] https://blog.torproject.org/blog/trouble-cloudflare

EDIT: [2] redacted name since there is more than one, please duckduckgo by yourself.

As a:

* Longtime repeat speaker at Black Hat

* Repeat review board member (including this year's), and

* Extreme skeptic of Cloudflare's

I do not believe this is true. If you have a talk that is on topic for Black Hat and is harmful to Cloudflare, you'll get accepted. There's no one person who screens Black Hat talks; it's a panel of people, with several of the longstanding members of that panel (I'm not one of those) being more or less unimpeachable (Mark Dowd, Chris Eagle, Alex Sotirov, Dino Dai Zovi). None of these people are in the tank for Cloudflare. In fact: for most of the review board, none of them give a shit about Cloudflare.

The process isn't perfectly transparent! But it's such that if you submitted a talk, and it got shitcanned before reviewers even saw it, and you made a stink about it on Twitter, people would notice.

I generally agree with your assessment of Cloudflare as a threat to the Internet, for what it's worth. I just don't think you're right that they've gamed Black Hat.

Yes, I'm well aware that cloudflare is mitm, yet for my needs I've decided that this is not a problem.

I can see that you are not happy with what they provide. Luckily theirs service is not forced on you. Neither do you have to use it, nor visit server that use it.

The paid plan, yes. But the commonly used free plan does not do much to prevent DDoS or DoS attacks.
Source?
https://www.cloudflare.com/plans/

Look at the "Advanced security" section.

I also used Siege to flood a site behind Cloudflare's free plan and brought it down.

There's the option for free plans: Basic DDOS protection with the following blurb:

Built-in security measures automatically protect your website against DDoS attacks. CloudFlare's service allows your legitimate traffic to reach your website, while stopping illegitimate traffic at the edge, before it hits your server.

So Cloudflare promises least a minimal protection for free plans.

As for Siege, I assume Cloudflare is optimized to protect from botnets. A single machine running Siege is not a realistic test case. Perhaps it also depends whether your website is mostly static, then Cloudflare can do a lot of caching.

That page argues against your point, even the basic plan does quite a bit to fend of DDOS. In particular, the most common and effective type of DDOS, which is volumetric and based on reflected UDP traffic, is defended against, even on their free tier.

Using a tool like Siege to bring a site behind Cloudflare down doesn't mean it's not protected. A layer 7 attack against a site which can't handle incoming HTTP requests is still possible. Cloudflare, or any other service, can't magically make a site scale.

> That page argues against your point, even the basic plan does quite a bit to fend of DDOS. In particular, the most common and effective type of DDOS, which is volumetric and based on reflected UDP traffic, is defended against, even on their free tier.

Maybe I'm missing something here, where does it mention that the free plan protects against UDP floods?

> Using a tool like Siege to bring a site behind Cloudflare down doesn't mean it's not protected. A layer 7 attack against a site which can't handle incoming HTTP requests is still possible.

Flooding a site using Siege from a single IP falls under the layer 7 attack (correct me if I'm wrong), which is protected against in the Business plan.

> Cloudflare, or any other service, can't magically make a site scale.

Where did I mention that I expect Cloudflare to magically scale a site? A POST or GET flood falls under layer 7 protection, which Cloudflare offers in paid plans.

If it was not clear, the point was that layer 7 protection is offered in the paid plans(Business and Enterprise), but not in the free plan.