[wott]

I have always been amazed when I saw friends or acquaintances, who had 10 to 20 years experience of various 'martial' arts, get into bar/street fights. They would exchange never-ending low-kicks and middle-kicks, which were absolutely useless and ineffective, and, after a while, fall or be grabbed and put to the ground.

In comparison, as far as I am concerned, completely untrained (meeting twice a week in a room to hit-on-and-get-hit-by-other-people-but-not-too-much is a concept that feels alien to me), my street/bar fights never lasted more than a few tenths of second. A good old straight punch in the nose/chin with all your body weight, or a good old knee in the balls/liver/ribs/plexus (depends on the size of the bugger, but it always lands somewhere that hurts or incapacitates), or, if in a creative mood, a lift-projection-crash/crush over and under a wall and table. Opponent sleeping, problem solved, can continue heading back home or having another drink, thank you. Oh, yeah, and one very important parameter is to hit first.

I cannot run, so that's not an option and I have to solve problems in a different way (which can include me spending a night in the hospital because the "hit first" thing only works when there is only 1, or perhaps 2 opponents).

This was just to say I have never been convinced by the application of martial arts training in real conditions. Unless people turn themselves into war killing machines, which I do not consider a good thing to do and to be as long as we live in an overall reasonably civilised world.

[krapp]

>This was just to say I have never been convinced by the application of martial arts training in real conditions.

With all due respect, though, unless you know hundreds of trained martial artists and have witnessed them get into hundreds of fights, the data set by which you're judging the validity of martial arts training seems a bit small.

Like a lot of people, you seem to be confusing confusing katas with actual fighting. "meeting twice a week in a room to hit-on-and-get-hit-by-other-people-but-not-too-much" isn't about training for actual real-world combat, it's a martial art, meaning there is a study of form, balance, coordination, etc. involved. Not every martial art is even that practical in the real world (i'm looking at you Aikido.)

But everything you mention as seeming more practical and useful than martial arts? Is still martial arts. "kick them in the balls and punch them in the face" is martial arts.

[S4M]

Where do you live? In all my adult life I've never been in a street fight, and must know like one or two persons who have once.

[the_rosentotter]

I've been in a street fight. The guy attacked, I pushed him back, he came again, I tried to hit him over the head with a beer bottle. He parried with his arm, crashing the bottle, then we tangled and rolled around on the ground a bit. Thank God he was just a clueless frat kid, and his ten friends broke us apart, instead of stomping my head in. Lesson learned: Don't leave it on luck for your life and future mobility. Don't get into street fights.

[saint_fiasco]

Could that be the curse of development?

The martial artist expects that a straight punch to the face will be blocked and countered, so they don't do that, even though in a street fight against an amateur, that is the best strategy.

It's similar to beginner's luck in videogames, where an expert player can't predict the beginner's moves because they play badly, so they lose the first time.

[Jtsummers]

Modern martial arts are also a lot about the sport, not the combat. We had this discussion in my office with a few of us who've done various martial arts over the years (varying degrees of skill, dedication). A lot of martial arts are about the points in competitions. If you land a punch, it's a point. It doesn't matter how strong, it matters how quick. In BJJ competitions, the one who might win a street fight won't necessarily win the match, because they put themselves in disadvantaged positions (opponent gets points) to gain a better position for a submission (not guaranteed to happen, but they win if they do, lose if they don't, it's a gambit).