[astazangasta]

>In general the world has become a lot more factual in the last 25 years.

Once again, there is no objective truth. The world (you, really) has adopted a new orthodoxy and become convinced it is fact.

Modern MMA was developed to showcase BJJ as developed by the Gracie family; the rules explicitly favor grappling. The idea that we can learn something about the "objective truth" about "effective fighting styles" by watching youtube videos is ridiculous.

In reality, the most effective street fighting style probably involves groin kicks, eye gouges and finger-locks, the attacks on the most vulnerable points in the human body. No one will (1) teach you these styles and (2) showcase them on television.

Furthermore, no matter what, different martial arts will appeal to different people. There are probably hundreds of styles of Chinese martial art that could be called "kung fu", including grappling styles, striking styles, throwing styles, weapon styles, etc. Different people will have differing aptitudes for each of these styles, and they will be appropriate in different situations.

There IS no best fighting style, because there is no single "fight". If someone shows up with a gun or perhaps even a sword, your BJJ or Muay Thai is useless. Similarly, if your opponent is twice your weight and only knows how to crush you with his arms, it doesn't matter that your style is not "a bit shit" like his, he will probably crush you with his arms.

[justinhj]

I trained in taekwondo and I can say we absolutely were taught the dirty techniques. Most of the class focused on physical training and traditional moves, but often a self defence section would show how to expand the basic moves to take people down and disable them. Eyes and throat were targets we practised with as well as the groin (although I seem to remember most of the likely attacks your face on the street don't really give you time to go for that area)

[r_smart]

On the street, techniques that rely mostly on inflicting pain aren't so great. This is why chokeholds and debilitating joint locks are preferable. You may not feel the pain (for whatever reason) but your arm is still broken and no longer functional. Or you're unconscious.

The weakness to BJJ is that if there's more than one person, things can get hairy for you, and the training doesn't focus on this much (or at all in most places I think).

[bigato]

>The weakness to BJJ is that if there's more than one person, things can get hairy for you, and the training doesn't focus on this much (or at all in most places I think).

If there is more than one person, things are going to get hairy anyway. Although some boxing/muay thai could help to some extent.

[r_smart]

Agreed, but coiling yourself around someone and rolling on the ground is a terrible position to be in when that someone has friends. The reality of most street fights is it's just drunk people being idiots. That usually means friends are around.

[bigato]

I'd say that not having 360 degree vision is a terrible shortcoming when your opponent has friends anyway. But also, bjj does not happen only on the ground, specially if you are talking about drunk people being idiots. Do not underestimate the power of a takedown to the cement, for example.

[r_smart]

> I'd say that not having 360 degree vision is a terrible shortcoming

Well now you're just being silly :)

>Do not underestimate the power of a takedown to the cement

I'm aware. I practiced Aikido for 10 years and BJJ for a year. BJJ doesn't really practice throwing with power, rather, it's usually a setup to disabling through grappling techniques. While I would readily admit Aikido is less martially effective overall (fairly tied to the traditional attacks & style of Japanese martial arts, which are often not practical), something that is explicitly trained for is fighting multiple opponents, throwing people into other people and throwing with power.

[bigato]

>> I'd say that not having 360 degree vision is a terrible shortcoming

> Well now you're just being silly :)

Well, I just meant that dealing with more than one opponent is a problem in BJJ as much as it is a problem in any other fighting style. It's not worse in BJJ because it has grappling and ground techniques. If you are exclusively a boxing fighter, for example, having people attack you from behind is also a big deal.

[r_smart]

I would argue that it is worse. If you are on someone's back, in a rear naked choke your entire body is set to controlling the person you're choking and you are defenseless against other attacks. Not just attacks from behind; you can be looking right at the second person and be in the position of having to decide whether to let the choke go to cover yourself or to stay committed to the choke. Worse, since the person you're choking has their hands free, you usually need to bury your face to keep them from doing things like gouging your eyes out, meaning you limit your vision. This obviously gets worse if you've pulled somebody into the guard.

Additionally, if someone is coming from behind, your ability to react is much faster if you're not wrapped around somebody else, giving you a better chance of protecting yourself.

*edit to add eye gouging into the equation.