[RankingMember]

>As an employer I am paying you to put my work ahead of >yours.

Maybe you're an employer in a 3rd world country so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but no worthwhile employer in the US would even pretend to expect that.

[randyrand]

In my experience, most do.

In Japan it's even common to expect an employee to move in a weeks notice for up to a year at a time.

[RankingMember]

Keep in mind I said "worthwhile". :)

I wouldn't tell anyone how to value their time, but I certainly wouldn't tolerate an employer telling me what I could focus on during off-hours.

[randyrand]

Well it's certainly worthwhile to the Japanese people that work at these jobs for decades. Otherwise they would not continue to do it.

[eisrep]

Worthwhile probably isn't the best word to use here. Most do it because it is expected of them. Some people thrive with this mindset and others are SOL.

The work culture in Japan is a very extreme case and can't be used to prove that this type of behavior is common in other parts of the world. I would say the majority of companies in the US and in Europe do a reasonable job of respecting the personal lives of their employees--more so if they are part of a union.

[coldtea]

>Well it's certainly worthwhile to the Japanese people that work at these jobs for decades. Otherwise they would not do it.

Being conditioned to do something, or being forced to do something to feed yourself because few other job opportunities exist outside Japan's corporate world, are not the same as "certainly worthwhile".

Except, of course, in the sense that not getting homeless or starving is worthwhile.

[randyrand]

> not getting homeless or starving is worthwhile

Do you not consider those worthwhile!? That's like the best example of worthwhile there is!

What point are you making?

[johnnyhillbilly]

That if the employer creates a situation where you can't play an hour of guitar at home and put it on youtube without firing you, then it's worthwhile for no valid reason.

[coldtea]

That as far as worthwhile goes, that's a pretty low bar. In fact the lowest there is -- where what we do is determined by sheer immediate need and necessity.

To give an example that might sound extreme, but it's the reality for hundreds of millions in other parts of the world (and a decent tens of millions in this part of the world too) a 12 year old child can go work in factories, mines, sweat shops or even prostitute itself to sex-tourist perverts to avoid starving. That doesn't make those "pursuits" worthwhile.

Of course for a privileged or semi-privileged middle/upper-middle class person, on a steady diet of comfortable upbringing, family support, financial support net, cushy jobs, and "do what you love" kind of advice, the situation is probably so alien that what's wrong with it might not even register.