[jacques_chester]

My brief skim over the Swarm announcement was that, while it focuses on the orchestration problem, it's not a fully-fledged PaaS. It's somewhere closer to where Kubernetes is working.

Essentially, you turn on a swarm and then ... oh, I still need routing. And service injection. And I need something to build the app. Something to hold the images. I guess I need standard debugging interfaces. Standard performance measurement. And ... and ... and ...

PaaSes require a lot of engineering.

Disclosure: I work for Pivotal on the fringes of one such PaaS, Cloud Foundry.

[gamedna]

PaaSes also require a lot of operational prowess. Once you have the engineering prototype up and running, keeping it running is a whole other story.

[jacques_chester]

This is also true.

At Pivotal we dogfood the latest releases of Cloud Foundry by deploying it to Pivotal Web Services: our public, we-make-money-from-this, there-are-legal-and-marketing-consequences-for-fucking-up cloud service.

By and large, nobody notices when we do it. BOSH is pretty good at that stuff.