[CoconutPilot]

Another horrible shifter is Toyota's. Take a look here: http://imgur.com/a/9ShAC

First gear is all the way down and to the right. Then left for 2nd, up and left for 3rd, up for 4th, right (!!!) for 5th (aka drive). Now it gets dangerous, if you go up and right you get reverse.

Is there a method to this madness?

[et-al]

Visually, it may seem confusing, but tactilely, it's intuitive:

Move your hand from the bottom-left corner to the top-right. That diagonal motion is shifting from D-N-R-P, what most people will use.

Now pretend you're driving in the mountains and you're on a long descent. Instead of riding your brakes, you want to use the transmission to limit your speed.

You're in 4th gear (D), so just bump your lever down to third (3). It's a simple vertical motion. Now you're in 3rd gear, but forgot and think you're still in 4th (D), and attempt to downshift once more. Fortunately, you won't accidentally drop the car into second gear. To get into second gear, you need a downward and horizontal motion. It requires intention to move from 3rd to 2nd gear.

And once you're in the rarely used 2nd gear, to switch between second (2) and first (L) is a horizontal motion.

So it makes sense once a person feels it out and actually drives their car. Designers with a background limited to just visual aesthetics need to learn this. Run through your interfaces; interact with them under less-than-ideal conditions.

  **tl;dr**

  P-R-N-D: diagonal motion

  D-3: vertical motion

  2-L: horizontal motion

[CoconutPilot]

You've somewhat proven how poor this shifter design is because you didn't realize it is for a 5 speed transmission!

[et-al]

You're right, but I've only looked at it and run the design through my head.

If I were sitting in a car, I would would know that 4-D is basically shifting between fourth and overdrive. And if someone accidentally did shift from overdrive down to fourth, it won't kill the car in most circumstances. It's better than the old O/D button that asks your thumb to press it.

Ultimately, my proposal that this shift pattern groups gears by use-cases still holds true. D-4, 4-3, 2-L. If a person can't understand that, it's perfectly fine to leave it in D.

[CoconutPilot]

Consider this scenario: you're shifting up from 1st gear and forget what gear you're in. If you're in 3rd gear its safe to shift up and to the right. If you're in 5th gear its not safe, up and to the right is reverse!

I don't agree with your analysis. Toyota's shifter is unsafe.

[et-al]

First off, please explain to me the scenario where you're drag racing someone and limiting your upshifts in an automatic transmission car. Okay, so you're in 5th gear (D), which happens to be overdrive. If you know what overdrive is, then you'd know that the possibility of redlining in that gear is next to none.

Lastly, with any automatic-transmission car made in the past 20 years, they won't let you shift into reverse from drive.

See:

https://www.quora.com/What-will-happen-if-a-person-suddenly-...

Shift Transmission into Reverse While Driving (https://youtu.be/GR13mElbqxM)

Anyways, you don't have to agree with my analysis. AFAIK, Toyota hasn't had a recall for this shift pattern.

[shawkinaw]

It might look crazy, but I've never had a problem using it, without looking. Certainly much, much better than the ridiculous Jeep shifter.

Re: the gear order, since it's an automatic you spend 99% of your time going between park, reverse, and drive, so the only one you regularly go through is neutral. It's very rare to need, say, first gear.

Edit: Oh, and I've never left it in drive thinking it was in park. Park = all the way up = hard to screw up.

[PeterisP]

There's a classic joke about that layout.

This guy goes to a dealer and buys a fully decked out luxury BMW. Fifteen minutes later, he calls the dealership complaining that they sold a defective car and that it broke down on the highway. They apologize, bring out a tow truck, check that yes, the gearbox is dead, apologize again, and give him another car. Fifteen minutes later, he calls again, totally angry, stating that this one is defective as well. The dealers are surprised, bring out a third car, and join with him on a test drive to see what happens. So, they sit in, and the guy starts showing the gearbox problem - start the car, put in 1st gear, drive off, put it in 2nd gear, put it in 3rd gear, drive onto the highway, floor the gas, put it in 4th gear, enjoy the ride, put in 5th gear, and now the Rocket mode! ...