[ittekimasu]

As someone who studies culture (as you can tell), my hate is reserved for the neo-colonial entities and the bourgeoisie they cultivate to stay in power. If you call such entities by the names the kakistocracies christen, then yes, I hate most states in the global south.

India, like China, however was a historic center (天竺 - heaven axis they called it) unlike most in the global south. To see it brought to the same level as sub-saharan Africa is painful; to realize there are deep structural issues that will keep it that way is even more so. Hate, yes, for the fat maggots feeding on the dying corpses - but that too is a distraction, for it's not the maggots' fault.

Rhetorical devices of the form "ah, but that's the our only way towards progress", will not be answered to. I'm tired of worn narrative, you lot bombard me with.

[Retric]

Focusing on 'Culture' is blinding you to what's going on. Tribal cultures are inherently economically inferior due to scaling issues. Western culture is not the only way forward, but the limitation is not the specific ideas, but rather the level of organizational structure.

Stable and mature underground economy's for example operate based on reputation not just tribe. As allegiance to even arbitrary tribes (crips vs bloods) limits commerce. Nation states are arbitrary and transitory, however when larger groups of people limit us vs. them to those outside the nation the internal economy's has fewer self imposed barriers.

PS: China demonstrates other failure points, but as a very non western culture they still show the same trends.

[oblio]

As always for these kinds of tirades: what's your proposed alternative?

[snovv_crash]

Hasn't India always been like that though, with the caste system? Nobody writes epics about the person who dug Arjuna's toilets, and so we see the past through rose-coloured lenses.

[gajjanag]

Nobody has written epics about anyone digging someone else's toilets as far as I know. This is not unique to the Mahabharatha or other Indian epics.

As for the caste system, yes, it has had a lot of evils. But then almost all populations around the world have some notion of "class" that is loosely defined, with its own set of evils. I fail to see how this is unique to India, see for instance the topic of ghettos in medieval history. In modern times, the "class" is usually based on financial wealth.

Furthermore, in the sense of classification based on profession (the idealistic interpretation of caste), this certainly exists across the world (merchant guilds, high concentrations of a single occupation like Harley St, London, etc).

Finally, as for viewing the past through rose-coloured lenses, every historian has his/her own set of biases in terms of coverage and emphasis. There are some who are honest about the reality of this, such as Howard Zinn who mentions it in his preface to "A People's History of the United States", but many delude themselves into thinking that they somehow are magically "unbiased".

With respect to works of fiction, the same applies. In the case of Tolkien, the treatment of the orcs is an example, we never see an orc perspective or pov. In the case of the Song of Ice and Fire, there is arguably little treatment of the common population. Military engagements are reduced to the standard historical style focusing on the leaders and "important" entities involved. As for the Mahabharatha, similar issues arise. Nevertheless, it has a surprising amount of depth and complexity in many respects (e.g morally grey characters and a bittersweet ending).

[otabdeveloper]

> we never see an orc perspective or pov

Offtopic, but this is false. There's a whole chapter of orcish perspective at the end of book IV.

[gajjanag]

Not a whole chapter, but yes, I had forgotten the exchange near Cirith Ungol.

[pakhibagai]

Granted that India has structural issues. Which country doesn't? A good look at the American presidential election 2016 tells us all.

[ittekimasu]

America, for all its deficiencies, does not expect its citizens to be loyal to a foreign culture or language, in order to come up in life. Some idiot being elected to the throne is not going to change the U.S, nor will it change the fact that US's GDP per-capita is about 25-30x that of India.

[selimthegrim]

So for those countries that weren't historic centers, their optimal fate is to put up with a comprador boot in their face, forever?

[ittekimasu]

Strawman.

Actually I have greater hopes for Africa, considering that nothing on the likes of,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decolonising_the_Mind

has emerged out of the sub-continent.

Edit: This has an excerpt,

http://swaraj.org/ngugi.htm

[selimthegrim]

I suppose the names Eqbal Ahmed and Tariq Ali mean nothing to you?

[ittekimasu]

Tell me, other than mimic ing whatever is fashionable in London, Berkeley and Paris, what exactly has the "Left" done in Africa, S. Asia and S. America ? Fashion, in general, is apparently the operational semantics of the ostensibly unpowdered and unperfumed.

[selimthegrim]

Thomas Sankara was no slouch.