[orky56]

Looks like Safari is getting some much needed updates with extensions and the upcoming community engagement. Apple Pay in Safari will allow Apple to add another device type to its payment ecosystem. Overall Safari is getting stronger and is moving in the right direction to keep pace.

[27182818284]

Safari has definitely been lagging behind from a web developer's perspective. We have a lot more problems with Safari lately than other browsers. I hope it gets the love it deserves as being such a great product.

[jacobolus]

From a user perspective, Safari is way ahead of other browsers. Much better optimized CPU/memory use, which means everything stays snappier even with hundreds of open tabs, and my laptop battery lasts a lot longer.

[falcolas]

I believe this can't be understated. I keep bouncing out to Chrome and Firefox, and then back to Safari. Chrome burns CPU (and batteries) like it's going out of style, and Firefox just can't keep up in the performance space.

It's telling when hangouts in Safari takes up less CPU (and performs better) than in Chrome.

Regarding WebRTC: I've not run across any usecase which requires WebRTC to this day - everything I do with web-based communication is one to many, necessitating something like Google hangouts or Skype for video or audio, and Slack/Hipchat/IRC for IM.

[Touche]

Hangouts uses WebRTC in supported browsers, as does Slack IIRC. And Skype is adding support.

[mhurron]

> From a user perspective, Safari is way ahead of other browsers.

Depends, I'm much more likely to have to go to Firefox because a site doesn't work on Safari than I am to go to Safari because something didn't work in Firefox.

I would like to keep all my work related sites in just Safari, but I can't.

[jseliger]

Much better optimized CPU/memory use

It appears, however, that ClickToFlash doesn't work on Safari anymore: http://clicktoflash.com, and the general "ClickTo" plugins don't work: http://hoyois.github.io/safariextensions/clicktoplugin/: "Due to Apple’s new development policies, version 3.2 is the final version of ClickToPlugin." That's a huge backwards step in usability IMO.

[PhantomGremlin]

It appears, however, that ClickToFlash doesn't work on Safari anymore

You say that like it's a bad thing. But why does anyone need Flash anymore?

I would switch to Chrome (for its built-in Fash) when I used speedtest.net, but I just now tried and there's a beta version that runs just fine using Safari w/o Flash.

Are you using some legacy apps that are Flash? What's your need?

[Touche]

I'm a user and I find not having service worker support makes web pages load slower for me. Also, not having WebRTC makes it less useful as I have to change browsers to video chat with people online.

[woah]

No webrtc so I need to keep chrome around for calls. Super annoying

[bangonkeyboard]

"Much needed updates with extensions" in this case means killing their open development and deprecating extensions entirely in favor of native app extensions that are less capable but more salable.

[legulere]

Still Apple Pay seems to be americo-centric with only supporting credit cards. In Europe SEPA wire transfers and direct debit is cheaper, safer and has a wider use-case (you can send money to any bank account).

[whyenot]

The fact that there may be a better option than ApplePay for 517 million people in Europe... that doesn't on it's own seem like great evidence that ApplePay is "america-centric." The vast majority of the world does not live in Europe's SEPA area.

[yladiz]

Disregarding the kind of payment, it does currently rely on NFC in terminals to work, and there are a lot of developed countries, e.g. South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, that don't have that technology or don't support it. For example, South Korea does have the infrastructure for Apple Pay in many places (e.g. NFC enabled terminals) but their infrastructure isn't set up for it. Even beyond this, there's a lot of countries that support contactless card payment unlike the US, which makes using Apple Pay even less useful and limits its acceptance.

From what I've read the vast majority of Apple Pay payments are done in the US, so it's not unfair to call it "America-centric".

[mhurron]

> Disregarding the kind of payment, it does rely on NFC in terminals to work

The point of Apple Pay in Safari is to move it to online transactions.

[chrisseaton]

> Still Apple Pay seems to be americo-centric with only supporting credit cards

I don't understand - do you pay for everyday goods and services with wire transfers and direct debits? Because that's the use case of Apple Pay isn't it?

I'm not sure how anything could be quicker than a credit card. A normal contactless transaction from me taking my wallet out of my pocket to being done takes about two seconds. Apple Pay is no different except I take my phone out of my pocket instead of my wallet. Maybe Apple Pay by watch could be quicker?

[matt4077]

For groceries: 50% cash, 50% debit cards or direct debit – they instantly score you and the content of your shopping cart and use the riskier but free direct debit if they trust you.

But most people have CCs now as well. It's the only sane option besides paypal and quite useful when traveling. I'm pretty sure though that a rather large percentage of CC users pay it within the month and avoid interest.

[chrisseaton]

Direct debit may be free, but they pay me when I use a credit card, with cashback, so it's even better than free. (Of course I know I pay for processing fees in the overall price, but if I'm paying that anyway I should use the credit card).

[jkrems]

Yes, debit card payments is who you'd buy everyday goods and services (e.g. the normal grocery shopping) in most of Europe. In Germany many people don't even own a credit card because debit cards fulfill that role already in everyday life.

[chrisseaton]

But you can connect a debit card to Apple Pay as well. I do that.

[dogma1138]

I haven't used cash this year in London. Last year I've used an ATM 4 times to a total of 70£.

I pay for as little as 70p for water with Apple Pay.