[avar]

The context to my comment is AnimalMuppet's hyperbolic reply that pacifism in the face of the enemy would somehow result in the destruction or enslavement of your whole society.

I'm pointing out that if say the French had surrendered to the Germans early in WWI there's no historical evidence that that would have been the case, and likely countless lives would have been saved.

The destruction of the state is not synonymous with the destruction of the people in it. Most wars only seek to abolish state power, not the people that make up those states.

[legulere]

> I'm pointing out that if say the French had surrendered to the Germans early in WWI

Or even earlier, France could have declared neutrality in regard to Serbia like Germany asked them to

[avar]

So many things would have changed for the better in that war if the various actors had drawn clear lines in the sand in advance.

E.g. the Germans believed the British wouldn't go to war with them over Belgium, the British knew Belgium was under threat in advance, but wouldn't draw a clear line in the sand telling the Germans that violating Belgium was an act of war.

Likely doing that would have kept Britain out of the war entirely since Germany would have attacked France directly.