[oroup]

I believe this should be an "unoccupancy" tax instead, where owners are taxed if the home is unoccupied:

* increases the supply of available housing

* includes all the properties that have already been purchased for speculation and hits every year

* substitutes an occupancy check (using data like utility utilization or direct observation) rather than a test of foreignness which is too easy to game.

* doesn't dissuade foreign investors but facilitates the creation of safe rental infrastructure serving them.

[bradleyjg]

What's wrong with just having a relatively high property tax and using the resulting revenue to provide city services? That should disincentivize warehousing empty residential units.

There are some disadvantages versus an income tax -- the proverbial pensioners with a house whose value exploded under them but can't reasonably tap that value because of not much income to secure a mortgage against is one. But judiciously targeted tax rebates can help there.

[nixos]

Because I can't pay taxes with my home "value". Income tax makes sense, when you've got fungible goods coming in, spend some as taxes. No income this year, fine, you're off the hook.

Property, not being fungible and being mostly atomic, is a horrible thing to tax.

[emptybits]

> No income this year, fine, you're off the hook.

Some locals are concerned that a disproportionate amount of the very highest value properties now being purchased are owned by those with no income. Poverty level. Asset rich, and rich in foreign cash. No income.

When such owners (OR, often, their elderly and school-aged family) take up residence in Vancouver then the result is 1) a net loss in income tax to support social services (such as education and health care), plus 2) a net increase in the cost to deliver those services because of our new and impoverished residents.

I'm not arguing for more property tax, but it's complex and very different than in the "good 'ole days". Not long ago, an asset-rich person could be assumed to have paid significant income tax into the public coffers during their life before they and their offspring drew down on public resources. Now, many do not. Food for thought?

[nixos]

So when they sell, they'll have to pay taxes. Sooner or later they'll have to sell (the point of investment properties is the ultimate profit), and that profit is taxable.

And really, how much money does an empty house need from the city? Street cleaning? Street maintenance? Some paperwork overhead? Except for the last one, they benefit all who use the street (the public), not just the property owner.

I think raising income tax is fairer than raising property taxes.

Incidentally, I think income tax bracket should be calculated on a rolling average income, not a monthly income (to prevent unduly punishing people who make large sporadic income)

[aianus]

They send their children to buy and live in the properties and go to UBC. So when they sell it is non-taxable since it is the child's primary residence.

[drpgq]

What taxes do they pay if they sell? Most of them I'm assuming will have one spouse listed as the owner and there's no capital gains taxes on principal residences in Canada.

[stormbrew]

If you make a large sporadic income, it's either from holding multiple payroll jobs, in which case you can file a form that adjusts your yearly income to the CRA such that your withholdings will make sense, or you're a contractor/business owner and you're paying your own taxes, possibly in installments anyways.

It's not like you're taxed at your peak monthly income. Withholdings are just estimates that can be adjusted.

[yazaddaruvala]

Your profit, is not their profit.

From what little I understand, the "profit" they get, is to safeguard this money from the Chinese government.

It is an investment towards a "low risk, high reward" future for themselves and their family.

[rahimnathwani]

You can pay taxes with your home value. Your home has a value as a home. That 'value as a home' can be quantified as rent. If you rent out your home to someone else, you can pay a portion of that as tax. If you would prefer not to do that, and to live in it yourself, you would make that decision after weighing the fact that you have to cover that tax yourself.

Property taxes aren't obviously absurd. I realise that there are counter-arguments (see supporters of prop 13 in California) but it's not as simple a situation as your comment suggests.

[hx87]

> Because I can't pay taxes with my home "value".

Then your home (and those of everyone else in the same situation) is horribly overvalued.

Property may be atomic, but their ownership can be split. Walmart is pretty damn unitary, but I can own shares in it, entitling me to a share of its profits. Similarly, a municipal government levying property taxes can allow you to pay the tax in shares in that property, entitling them to a share of the profits. In this case, the profits are imputed rent, i.e. the rent you avoid/pay yourself due to owning the place.

[cperciva]

unoccupancy

How do you propose to measure that? If someone commutes to a work camp outside Fort Mac and is only physically present in Vancouver for two weeks each month, do they pay the tax? What if someone spends 4 months every winter in Florida? How about someone who gets hit by a truck and spends six months in a hospital? Or an elderly couple who move into a care home because the husband has dementia, but want to keep the house they lived in for 50 years because the wife (who is still in good health) might move back there after the husband dies?

[mahyarm]

I think it's to prevent the unoccupied house bank account. You could make an exemption for your official registered home address.

That way if you own more than one house, the unoccupancy tax creates an incentive to put the locked up supply on the rental market, but would sidestep the complexity you just stated.

[icebraining]

You could make an exemption for your official registered home address.

How does that work against foreign investors? How can you prevent them from having an official registered home address in both countries?

[mahyarm]

That is a residency problem that immigration and canadian income tax has systems to deal with that. And if they somehow get around all of those controls, it would only apply to one house, so it would limit the financial scope of it.

[rdmcfee]

There is already some process available to measure this as Canada has tax deductions available specific to your "primary residence". CRA definitely has a way of auditing this. Sharing that information with a provincial level organization may not be possible, though.

[delazeur]

I think "occupancy" is pretty much a solved problem for purposes of taxation. In the U.S., for example, there are settled rules about which state gets your income taxes if you live or work in multiple states.

A simple solution to the problem at hand would be to let everyone designate any one residence as their primary residence taxed at a lower rate, with any additional property they own being taxed at a higher "secondary/unoccupied residence" rate unless they can prove it is being rented out.

[cperciva]

Residency is a solved problem for income taxes. But that's a completely different issue from occupying a particular residence; for example, an international student may for tax purposes be a resident of his country of nationality despite not setting foot in it all year.

[kazinator]

Vancouver measures it somehow. There is the Home Owner Grant and the criteria are are laid out here:

http://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/are-you-eligib...

[mahyarm]

They are also adding that, but the city has to legislate it:

"The B.C. Liberal government will also introduce legislation this week that will allow the City of Vancouver to impose a tax on vacant homes; and follow through on an earlier promise to end self-regulation of the real estate industry."

[kazinator]

We have that in Vancouver, in a way. If you reside in a property, you get a discount from your property tax: the so-called "Home Owner Grant". Seniors get an additional discount.

http://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/home-owner-gra...

For properties with an assessed value beyond a certain amount, it is not available.