[Fifer82]

I am not sure what I am saying, but I believe that a lot of the people voting, do not have the intelligence to vote.

I met a couple of neds in Spain recently on the day of the vote, and they were like "Take it back, init, take it back and be great".

I was like "What does that mean though??? Take back what??". "Take it back! We just need to run ourselves".

Despite almost an hours worth of discussion, they were passionate about something which was nothing of value. I would probably put a lot of money on 20% of the vote being people who pick up a newspaper, and copy what the editor says.

This "lets be great again" rubbish was the common theme.

[madaxe_again]

This is the nature of our democracy, however.

One could argue that one has a duty to educate, but you cannot force knowledge and reason upon people who do not wish it.

I saw much of the same on the brexit vote - one that stood out was someone i'd always thought was an intelligent man (he used to run a substantial investment bank), who I found screaming, froth-flecked, in my face about how I was a traitor for not voting for freedom, how I loved evil, how leaving the EU was a vote for freedom. He couldn't elaborate on anything, he could just shout louder. It doesn't matter to him even, he'll be dead soon. One of his sons is a us native with British citizenship working on an eu research grant in Scandinavia. So strong was his irrational hatred he voted to fuck his own son over. Oh, and this guy is your ivy league elite, as were many of the other codgers in the room with the same groundless hate, so there goes the argument of this piece.

The trimp/brexit voters aren't disillusioned youth, aren't the left behind, they're just your usually older traditional values crowd.

That all said, like it or lump it. You are in the same boat as these people, they are people, and they represent the majority of people.

I've spent most of my life trying to be tolerant of incredible stupidity, and I don't know if I'll ever fully succeed, but all you can do is grit your teeth, and keep quiet. You won't change their minds with any rational discourse, only emotional.

[SeanDav]

You know, I have heard this argument used a few times. If you are intelligent, you voted to remain, if you are not intelligent, you voted to leave. So blame lack of intelligence on not getting a vote you wanted, because people that disagree with you must not be intelligent - right?

[madaxe_again]

I'm not sure where you get that from. The leave arguments were emotional, the remain arguments were rational. Emotional arguments always win.

[SeanDav]

Project Fear from the remain side was rational, was it? George Osborne's "punishment budget" was rational, was it? Attempting to delay the release of NI numbers until after the referendum was rational, was it? Instructing the Civil Service to not help Brexit ministers with EU questions was rational, was it?

There are many rational arguments for both leave and remain, it depends on your point of view. There were many emotional arguments from both sides.

[guard-of-terra]

"he voted to fuck his own son over"

Now, that was both emotional and irrational.

[madaxe_again]

So, despite his sons residency and employment both being dependent on the uk's continued membership of the EU, you think this was a rational, kind decision?

[guard-of-terra]

I don't think they're dependent on the UK's membership of the EU that much.

First, there's plenty of people not from EU who participate in European research on European grants. Think Russians in CERN and so on.

Second, secession from EU doesn't mean freedom of travel will be thwarted for scientists. UK was already not on Schengen, so what? At worst they'll have get a visa every few years.

In short, that person might consider that his son will figure it out.

Regarding "kind" - "kind" is irrational. Rational is often not kind and kind is often not rational.

[madaxe_again]

He's at a European university on an EU grant via a British institution. It's hard to see how that would continue.

There was no rationale behind his leave vote other than the EU being the "empire of evil" that we must free ourselves from for freedom. Same applied to everyone else I spoke with that evening.

[anexprogrammer]

There's always been a percentage who would vote for, shall we say, simplistic reasons. They're the group least likely to actually go and vote I believe.

But some kid latching onto the oft used soundbite of "take back control" (from whom, why?) is little different to "I vote Labour because my dad always did", or "I voted Blair because he has a nice smile" (someone actually said that to me after the 97 election).

I just consider it background noise, and might be perhaps 20% of all votes.

What was different is that they managed to get a good turnout, and in cases where it wasn't about jobs/EU migration it was about London overlords telling them what to do whilst simultaneously neglecting them (take back control).

The messages resonated perfectly with their life experiences.

Unfortunately the irony of giving the UK govt a good kicking via an EU Brexit vote that will remove more benefits than problems for them will be lost on them.