[curiousgal]

You'll probably get downvoted but you are correct. As an Arab it sickens me how these "refugees" are choosing what country to stay in despite the fact they say they escaped war and torture. It saddens me how they are giving us, potential future immigrants with degrees and a desire to be functional parts of society, more bad rep.

[peteretep]

    > it sickens me how these "refugees" are choosing what
    > country to stay in despite the fact they say they
    > escaped war and torture

Having escaped war and torture, why wouldn't you then want to maximize your chances of a successful rest of life?

[tibiapejagala]

Because the law says you can't do that. Well, you might not agree with that certain rule, but note that many do not agree that any form of taxation is fair. Maybe they just want to maximize their chances of a successful rest of life?

[peteretep]

The law says you can't do what, exactly?

[NetStrikeForce]

> It saddens me how they are giving us, potential future immigrants with degrees and a desire to be functional parts of society, more bad rep.

Does having a degree make you a better person or a more functional part of society? Does not having a degree bring bad rep?

And.

Why do you think these people don't have degrees and can't be functional members of society? Do you think they're stupid because their country was at war? or are they stupid because they have no means to just catch a plane and get a visa?

Your comment is extremely unfortunate.

[curiousgal]

>Does having a degree make you a better person or a more functional part of society?

I can't answer that. However, I can say that having a degree makes an Syrian immigrant a better person or a more functional part of a Western society.

A degree in the Third World is often associated with education (duh), work ethics and a sense of civility. I know this might sound elitist as heck but what use would a developed country have for someone without any of those qualities?

>Why do you think these people don't have degrees and can't be functional members of society?

Simply because they couldn't even be functional in their own society.

I never said they were stupid but if Third Worlders were so bright, why isn't the Third World developed?

Unfortunate? What's unfortunate to me is that I have to point out why countries like my own are far behind. Like it or not the reason for that regression is people.

[NetStrikeForce]

Wow. You're going to have a hard time adapting to Europe, unless you only mingle with the elites.

Here is the thing, our values are not "get a degree". Our values are respect, treating and considering each other as equals, help each other, you know, stuff like that.

Unfortunately you seem to be very far from understanding it. Hence why you'll have issues in Europe. You're welcome to come and learn about our values, but be ready to respect everyone equally regardless of their origin, studies or money.

Good luck in your life.

[DominikR]

> Does having a degree make you a better person or a more functional part of society?

I think it would be safe to say that in case of the parent commenter this is true.

It seems obvious that he/she is educated and actually wants to be a part of society.

[NetStrikeForce]

Nothing of that makes you a better person. This whole thread is fucked up and I'm totally losing faith in humanity.

[DominikR]

Who cares what you believe in?

[NetStrikeForce]

It must be shit to be you :-)

[DominikR]

What kind of reply did you expect with this insult? ;-)

You can either argue with me based on facts or at least come up with some thoughtful insights but not with "I'm loosing faith in humanity".

[widforss]

As a refugee one is looking for a better life per definition. Surely the primary goal is to get away from war or threats of violence and death, but if you were starting over, wouldn't you want to start with the best possible odds?

[curiousgal]

The worst of those odds still beats living in Syria by a long mile believe me. For this particular guy, going for the "best possible odds" definitely doesn't justify the risk he took.

In a nutshell, beggars can't be choosers.

[vidarh]

Of course beggars can be choosers.

What that statement generally means is that beggars can't generally afford to turn down charity, hoping for others to give something better.

But in this case this is not what we are talking about, but a situation where someone has to decide which country they will try to apply for asylum in, amongst multiple possible options. In that case, they most definitively can choose to some extent, even though the alternatives may have different perceived risk profiles.

And as with everything else, of course some people will choose badly.

[PeterisP]

But these aren't simply "multiple possible options" that differ only in the final country.

One option, getting asylum as soon as you can, is your right, and the other option - crossing the border with forged documents to get asylum elsewhere - is a crime.

Yes, you may prefer A to B - but if one of them is permitted and the other is not, then there is a big ethical difference, and simply choosing whatever benefits you most is not appropriate.

[jamespo]

It would seem they can in this case, maybe you don't want them to.

[curiousgal]

Beggars can't be choosers.

Person A can choose.

Ergo, Person A is not a beggar.

Of course they can choose, but they have to stop playing the "refugee" card.

[charlesdm]

Absolutely. Given he speaks excellent english, the UK is pretty much the only logical choice.

[Tehnix]

Except for the fact that you can easily get by with english in most european countries.

[socialist_coder]

Yeah, this is a huge misconception. You pretty much need to be able to learn the language to successfully live in a country long term.

Even if you can find a job in English (which is possible, things like startups or video game developers are sometimes in English), you will need the local language to talk to shop keepers, repair men, salespeople, any government worker, etc. Basically all the day to day bullshit errands you need to do are only doable in the local language.

Nordic countries are probably OK with English only since a huge % of the population speaks English. Everywhere else though, no chance. The English speaking % is far too low.

[Tehnix]

>Even if you can find a job in English (which is possible, things like startups or video game developers are sometimes in English), you will need the local language to talk to shop keepers, repair men, salespeople, any government worker, etc. Basically all the day to day bullshit errands you need to do are only doable in the local language.

In Nordic countries at least, that is indeed not a problem. Literally everybody speaks english at some level, and the whole especially in the larger cities you can often end in shops or restaurants where the people that work there only speak english.

[zorked]

If you are a tourist sure. If you hope to get a job, especially if your occupation isn't in high demand, then no.

[foldr]

In France?! You've got to be kidding.

[cabalamat]

> it sickens me how these "refugees" are choosing what country to stay in

Why is it sickening? Surely it makes sense for any person to choose the best option of those open to them?

[curiousgal]

That is precisely the point. Some options are not open to them. Something about having to go through smugglers and secretly cross borders gives that out.

[danso]

I don't agree with breaking the laws of a host country when coming in as a refugee, but it's important to realize that many refugees had normal lives and were functional parts of their society before war befell them. They aren't just the dregs of society, looking for the next host to scam and rummage before moving on, though your use of "refugees" in scare quotes seems to imply that you don't see them as real people.

[curiousgal]

I only used "refugees" to refer to the dregs of society you mentioned, not the actual refugees.

[obj-g]

For me, the disgusting thing was when the large amounts of immigrants were coming in all together and they were complaining about being in Denmark or wherever. This guy, I mean, in this situation, I guess it's wiser for him to choose -- but the people in the first situation should have just been grateful, not complaining that they don't want to be here in X. The way they expressed it made them come off really poorly, in my opinion.

[magic_beans]

Are you serious? Do you understand what the situation is in Syria? Why do you deserve to be in a country any more than a refugee? What exactly does your "degree" do to contribute to "functional" society any more than a refugee's job?

[curiousgal]

I never said I deserve to be in a country more than they do but when someone illegally enters a country and accidents start to happen. Citizens of that country can't help but question immigrants in general and that's all I've said.

I used "refugees" intentionally to refer only to immigrants with solely economic motives not all refugees.

[patates]

When uneducated immigrants seek social services, I don't look at them in a negative light. Dismissing them just like that, however, comes to me as too elitist.