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by kowdermeister 3632 days ago
$70k is a splendid salary if you live outside the US :) It's probably more than I ever earned in my lifetime.
3 comments

Yes, i'd take a $70k salary while living in North Carolina. But the "shortage" being discussed here is for the Bay Area. I'm here, let me break down my costs: - $17k taxes - $3k health care premiums - $7k college loans - $36k rent - almost nothing left for savings, retirement, down payment, engagement ring, any means to get out of my situation
You couldn't afford to get married if you can't afford an engagement ring.
You can get married for about $60 (or the cost of a marriage license in your area). Of course, if you want a Wedding then that's a little different.
not sure what you mean?
I think I got the gist of OP's comment... Computer programmers make higher than the average salary. If you're barely making ends meet as a programmer your significant other is probably NOT making ends meet. Living together and sharing expenses saves some money but you'll probably be just about back where you started once you're married and co-habitating with your spouse.

Then comes kids...

Can I ask what 36K in rent affords and roughly which part of the Bar Area?
$3k per month should get you a studio apartment in the Mission, SOMA, downtown etc.

If you're willing to share you can get for cheaper. If you want 1 bedroom you're going to struggle to find something for $3k.

Less 3k a month is in solid 1 bedroom territory for those neighborhoods these days. Around ~$2700 is what I'm seeing in my search for decent 1bedrooms in good SF neighborhoods.
That's still pretty crazy though. What if you had a kid(s)? That's $2700 a month that could be building equity somewhere else.

From what I have seen the salary spread between say SF and NYC is not enough to compensate for the higher rental costs in SF.

I don't know why you got down voted. You're absolutely right. Most everyone will tell you, "Its about maxing total compensation as much as you can to boost your overall earnings!"

Good luck with burning out at 35 with no passive income streams. I'd rather build equity, and even have a couple of rental properties from being a top 10% earner in a smaller area. That's a million dollar piggy bank being filled by someone else AND a passive income stream on which to retire.

It may be a splendid salary in some locations outside the US, it is not in many others.

Americans tend to believe they are wealthier than anyone else. Not so! Apart of the fact several countries in Europe have higher salaries (and cost of living than the US) there's the fact major cities are much more expensive than smaller ones, even in poorer countries.

Case in point: The most expensive cities in the Americas are Sao Paulo, Bogota and New York. You can easily enjoy a higher standard of living earning $70k in most of the US than you can in Sao Paulo or Bogota (I've lived in both, I know it for a fact)

Just for the record: $70k is still an amazing salary for São Paulo. Actually, you can find good enough developers for half of that.
That's not the point, the point is $70k in Sao Paulo buys you a lower standard of living than $70k pretty much anywhere in the US but in a handful of cities.

$70k in Sao Paulo doesn't go much further than $70k in New York (or Tokyo, London, Paris, Singapore...)

Do I have to remind you how much a computer, a smartphone or a car costs in Brazil compared to the US?

I doubt your claim of finding "good enough" developers for $35k. I was making more than that in my first job, fresh out of school, when I had zero real world experience, working remotely for an American company, and that was in the early 2000s.

Most companies would be elated to find even a competent html/css/js coder for that price.

I understood your point about comparing São Paulo to other cities. I just wanted to point out that, in absolute terms (not relative to other ṕlaces), $70k is a great salary for SP standards.

About the $35k claim, let's make the math: currently USD 35k ~= BRL 115k. 115k/12 ~= 9.6k. That means USD 35k/year is roughly BRL 9.6k/month, which is the salary of a Senior Java guy here. Idk about 2000, but it seems like you were doing very good back then.

Fair enough, but the point stands. If I were given the choice of a $70k/year position in Sao Paulo or, let's say, Miami, FL. I would take the Miami location without hesitating for a second. $70k goes a lot further there than in South America. Literally everything is cheaper in Miami than in SP (or Bogota, where I am).

Most software developers, as most people, in South America simply cannot afford the standard of living of a first world country, even when they make a great salary for local standards. Most things don't cost any less just because the local population cannot afford it (and very often they cost more).

You're comparing local salaries with remote salaries. It's very different, 95% of local guys are unemployable remotely due to a combination of lack of language skills (huge factor), low skill level, shitty work ethics (another huge factor) and being stuck in dead-end technologies like Java.

When American companies look for remote developers they want people who speak excellent/perfect English, are in the same time zone, have (at least) above average skills and are willing to work like Americans do (Americans are workaholics, you'll be surprised at how damn lazy/unproductive most people are). I've been working remotely for 10+ years and I've been asked to find local talent several times, and finding it is hard. I've only vouched for one guy in all this time, and he quit after 6 months and moved to the US (and the pay was spectacular for local standards).

70k is a good salary even in many places within the US, the problem is that the cost of living in SF and NYC makes that salary very hard to live on. Rent in some locations within SF and NYC can meet or exceed 70k.
I get that, it's just so unreal to see these numbers for the same thing as I do. This is a really good reason why remote work is going to level the market. I'm a bit surprised that it's not already around 50% of hires.
Remote working on this scale in several major industries would precipitate a second banking crisis far larger than 2008 I suspect.
What is considered 'good' compensation for a senior developer in Budapest? Have you been turned down for remote work due to where you live?