[getgoingnow]

Why is UBI so popular on this site? This is a site for hackers, programmers and engineers.

Could it be the result of a decade long propaganda by VCs targeting Zuckerberg wannabes - those who want to have UBI, so they can work on the newest blockchain-enabled photo-sharing social local VR app ?

[ekimekim]

(my guess / personal opinion, I don't claim to speak for everyone)

Because so many here believe so strongly in the power of automation. Almost all software engineers are in the business of putting people out of jobs - eg. replacing a secretary with a mail and calendar app, replacing a business middleman with an online marketplace, or replacing a sysadmin with cluster management tools.

A way to resolve this cognitive dissonance of us doing a thing we think is right (automating the world) with causing a thing we think is bad (unemployment) is to turn unemployment into not a bad thing, which is the promise UBI makes.

This doesn't mean we don't honestly believe it can work. But it makes us more likely to WANT to believe it. Brains are funny things.

[ZenoArrow]

Increasing levels of automation certainly plays a part in the drive to explore solutions like UBI, but it's not the only consideration. On a broader level, the issues driving UBI are those related to social mobility and quality of life. Those issues would exist without the drive towards automation.

To explain what I mean, imagine you're working a low-skilled, low-paid job just to keep a roof over your head, with very few opportunities to retrain (both in terms of free time and money). In other words, you're working just to survive, and are not making the most of your time on Earth. UBI would give people in that situation an avenue to retrain, as well as making it harder for companies to keep wages low for undesirable jobs, they would have to better compensate people for giving up their time to do a job they otherwise wouldn't be interested in doing. None of these factors are directly derived from increased automation.

As for whether or not UBI will be a net benefit, the answer is not completely clear, but that's the reason small-scale experiments looking into UBI have been started.

[tlb]

UBI gives people the ability to follow their dreams without risk of homelessness and starvation. Some of those dreams will be blockchain-enabled blah blah, some will be writing novels, or starting bands, or making community gardens, or teaching, or whatever.

Perhaps there are VCs who advocate UBI only because they think they can make money on the small subset of people whose dream is to start a venture-funded company and take it public. But UBI helps people follow whatever dream they have, so you'd have to hate VCs an awful lot to oppose UBI for that reason.

[getgoingnow]

  some will be writing novels, or starting bands, or making community gardens, or teaching, or whatever.

And slaves in 3rd world countries will make all the things (cameras, phones, clothing, furniture, raw materials etc.). Are those gardeners actually going to contribute in any way to the lives of people in China who make the things that help them be a gardener? Trade is a 2 way street. Person in China makes the things, but what does the American gardener do in return for the Chinese maker?

  UBI gives people the ability to follow their dreams without risk of homelessness and starvation.

This is what independently wealthy have today. But, the way those people make money is by subjecting everyone else to wage slavery, creating monopolies and extracting rent. Sometimes it's fraud. In the past it was explicit slavery.

So, maybe Americans could live like poets and gardeners, but first the rest of the world would have to be enslaved. Meaning, you don't trade with the Chinese and provide value in return, but enslave them. Is this a possibility? Do you think Chinese makers are going to put up with American poets and gardeners on welfare?

[tlb]

China should also work towards UBI. Currently they are behind the US in GDP, but their growth rate is much higher so it's possible they'll be able to afford it first.

[nostrademons]

No, robots will make all the things. For most manufacturing tasks there is no reason why a human needs to do it.

[Yhippa]

I wonder the same thing. I am not saying disagree. I think the YC experiment is interesting and I really want to see the results. On the other hand I wonder what they stand to gain from it?