[DanBC]

> Britain has absolutely not cut services to the bone - that claim in incredibly hyperbolic. More could be done, but in general no-one goes hungry,

Use of foodbanks is at record levels. Families in poverty are at the highest they've been for years; often those families are in work.

> people are not homeless,

If by homeless you mean "rough sleeping" then rates of homelessness are at the highest they've been for years. (numbers for 2015 are double the number for 2015) If you mean statutory homelessness then they're at the highest they've been for years. (But counting rough sleepers, statutory homeless, and vulnerably housed people in the UK is tricky).

> garbage is collected,

Amount of fly-tipping appears to have increased, although that might just be better reporting and recording. Most councils have moved from weekly collections to fortnightly collection, and some are thinking of moving to once every three weeks.

> clean water is provided,

This is a commercial service provided by tax avoiding private companies.

> the rule of law is enforced, the court system is healthy,

Legal aid has been cut from many many people, leaving a lot of people without access to justice. This is especially the case in family law. There's a risk that children's human rights to a family life are being interfered with.

> public transport is good,

Mostly private companies. Public transport is good in large cities; somewhat good in large towns; pretty lousy outside large towns.

> schools and universities are doing fine,

Cost of loans has increased, amount of debt that students leave university with is highest it's ever been

> pensions are paid

Tell that to the 50something women who've been fucked over by governments increasing retiring age several times, leaving those women thousands of pounds out of pocket. Or tell that to C&A workers.

> and health care continues to be rather good

A&E 4 hour targets aren't being met; consultant-led waiting times aren't being met; UK has pretty terrible outcomes for cancer; MH is not good.

Children with mental illness find it very hard to get a bed, and those beds may be hundreds of miles away from their home. Community care for children with mental illness has always been rough, but with the Young People's Transformation Plan we were supposed to see things get better. Some CCGs took that money for young people and spent it elsewhere.

Last month there were zero in-patient beds for adults with mental illness. This means that very sick people (because rightly nowadays you have to be very ill to get an in-patient place) are at increased risk of death and severe harm. Out of county in-patient treatment for adults with mental illness is at record levels.

Politicians lie if they say the NHS has had increase in spending. NHS deficits are at record levels; NHS budgets have been cut in anyway you define budget and cut. It isn't possible to look at current NHS budgets and say they've been increased.

Cutting wages (and removing bursaries) means there are many posts that are unfilled, and some of those are substantive posts.

> and excellent value for money.

We do a lot for not much money. But there are a lot of things that have excellent "spend to save" numbers that we don't do because they're too expensive, so we save today but spend tomorrow.

Austerity has had massive impact on public services, especially the NHS.

[deepvibrations]

Was about to write a similar response- I totally agree that the cuts have definitely had negative effects. After listening to friends and family who work as teachers, magistrates and in the emergency services, I feel that public services are really stretched and that the cuts have hit all areas negatively...Maybe it is not so obvious to the average person, but I think if you talk to anybody working in the public sector they will echo these sentiments!

[DanBC]

> (numbers for 2015 are double the number for 2015)

Argh, 2015 numbers are double 2010 numbers.

[nagrom]

Poverty is an extremely loaded term - a child in poverty is defined as a child living in a household with less than 60% of the national average income - it has no connection to specific material deprivation.

Foodbank use is up - but there is no measure of whether this is down to misplaced priorities instead of actual need. Flour and good quality fresh vegetables are the cheapest and most widely available they've ever been.

Clean water in Scotland is paid for by council tax so I count it as a publicly-provided good. I'd also argue that the framework for delivering the water and sewage systems are significantly connected to the government. Note that Tax Avoidance is not illegal, nor is it morally repugnant. A tax system that is reddled with loopholes and exceptions that can only be understood by the private entities making money off it is the problem there - perverse incentives rather than a nominally low rate. (Although the rate is not particularly low.)

Fly tipping may or may not have increased. But my local council runs several large recycling centres and collects refuse biweekly in addition. The fact that some people are breaking the law to avoid paying recycling charges has nothing to do with Brexit.

Public transport may be provided by private companies but these are often bidding to supply government contracts. Public transport has always been poor outside large towns and always will be - your neighbours should not be forced to pay for empty buses to drive about the countryside in case someone in a sparsely populated area wants to go somewhere.

Student numbers are up to the point where a lot of students are paying for degrees that they cannot use to get a job. International student numbers are good, which surely proves that universities are remaining globally competitive.

The unfeasible public commitment to paying old people using income from young people has problems - nevertheless, the government is meeting its commitment to pay retirees a state pension. Why should women get to retire earlier than men? They are equally capable of working and supporting themselves.

For the record, I don't believe that the NHS is a good system - anything that politicises something as important as healthcare is bad. I suspect that the French and German models are better (but still nowhere near perfect). But the NHS has, for as long as I can remember, had a funding crisis. There have always been headlines about funding problems and service unavailability - fifteen years ago the service was getting pilloried for leaving patients on carts in the corridor rather than providing beds. I'm not convinced it's getting rapidly worse. Mental health treatment has always been a disgrace - not just in the UK but worldwide. Nevertheless, the care provided for the money spent in the NHS is good - a lot of countries (e.g. US, Ireland) spend more and get less. The formal NHS budget will rise by £35bn in the period form 2009/10 to reach £133bn. Inflation (which the previous commenter claimed we shouldn't worry about as we will suffer deflation causing 'social collapse') will eat £24bn of that meaning that the NHS budget over ten years will increase at a rate of about 0.9% a year over inflation. No-one's lying and the total budget has not been cut.

"Austerity" has meant no overall cash cuts. Austerity has meant an increase in public spending year-on-year over the rate of inflation. There are lies going on about public spending but to imagine that public services are 'cut to the bone' is so nonsensical as to damage the credibility of anyone arguing thus.

[DanBC]

> The formal NHS budget will rise by £35bn in the period form 2009/10 to reach £133bn.

> The formal NHS budget will rise by £35bn in the period form 2009/10 to reach £133bn.

Conversation is pointless with people who believe this. It's clearly, unambiguously, a misrepresentation of the facts. Why do you think everyone is writing STPs? (Do you know, without googling, what I'm referring to when I say STP?)