[benjohnson]

The one that stands out (for me) is Eli's question after God let the Jews die in the Holocaust - "What is man? Ally of God or simply his toy?''"

Eli's question is a continuation of the theological "Problem of Evil": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

As a person of faith, Eli's question is still haunting in it's note of despair.

[themartorana]

I've always been amazed people can still have faith after things like the holocaust. I'm agnostic myself, something I'm sure you didn't need me to say... But I don't know if there is a god or gods or afterlife at all - but if there is, I'm pretty sure they don't intervene in our daily lives. Believing he/she/they do is accepting a policy of extreme incompetence, or admitting that our well being isn't always at the forefront.

At least admitting that God does give us free will and does provide an afterlife, but doesn't step in when shit gets ugly in this life (and I mean levels of horrors you would have trouble believing actually exist) allows faith to continue with some acceptance of logic.

But the idea that everything bad is of man, and everything good is of God is a pretty untenable position, it seems to me.

But of course, I am not a man of faith, and my life is pretty good. So these aren't surprising positions I'm sure.

[benjohnson]

My faith tradition would heartily agree that the situation is entirely untenable - only that we would turn our suffering over to God as a way of sharing in His suffering for us.

My rational side finds such a ideas entirely disturbing!

From a Christian viewpoint - God indeed isn't always interested in our (momentary) well being - only that we are saved in everlasting life.

Our more mystical faithfull would remind us that we each experience this world in the palm of God's hand - in that God could create a separate experience for each of us and that (perhaps) the suffering we witness isn't experienced in the way that we see.