[jgh]

I read the linked article on Implementers, Problem Solvers, and Problem Finders. I think that, given that the job market is very much on the side of programmers, that people need to be more choosy with what they take. You usually know going into it what you're going to be working on and what kind of company it is. Applying for an iOS job at a place that sells dog toys? I bet you're not going to be feeling like you're using your creative side...

[vonmoltke]

> given that the job market is very much on the side of programmers

I think this is seriously oversold. Outside of the Valley, or outside of certain skillsets, the market is not on the side of programmers.

[amyjess]

This.

I got laid off a few months ago. All in all, I was unemployed for about three months before landing a new position.

Whenever I checked Indeed or Monster, I saw lots of positions that required extensive J2EE or .NET skills, plus a bunch of webdev and a handful of mobile jobs. None of those I have. I have lots of Java experience, sure, but it's all core Java and thoroughly divorced from the web. I was passed up for some jobs I thought I was going to get because the internal recruiters were really excited about me only to get shot down by the hiring manager because I had no webdev background.

My background is half in core Java and half in Linux platform and Python development; almost nobody in Dallas wants either. And, no I'm not interested in leaving Dallas, and even if I was, I certainly wouldn't move to the Valley. If I ever set foot in California at all, it'd be SoCal.

What finally saved me was when an old friend of mine found a position open at his company and put in a good word for me. I got lucky. If not for him, I'd be staring down another two-year period of unemployment like I had in 2010-2012.

[TeMPOraL]

Yeah. Two aspects of that:

- there's a shit ton of programmers on the market now, with universities producing more and more like sausage factories

- the job market is getting super-specialized - once they'd ask for JavaScript programmers, now they ask exclusively for "Angular experience" or "React experience" or "$random_two_weeks_old_framework experience"; whether demanding such specific skillsets buy companies anything over asking for just a $language programmer is arguable

[amyjess]

> the job market is getting super-specialized - once they'd ask for JavaScript programmers, now they ask exclusively for "Angular experience" or "React experience" or "$random_two_weeks_old_framework experience"; whether demanding such specific skillsets buy companies anything over asking for just a $language programmer is arguable

Honestly, this just aggravates me so much. I'd like to learn some of these technologies! But, no, even though I'm a solid programmer and I have a history of picking up new things as they get thrown at me at a company I'm already working at, nobody wants me if I don't already have a lot of experience with that one specific library under my belt.

Also, on a similar note, I've noticed this being done with IBM software for years. So many job descriptions I've had to pass on because they want specific experience with WebSphere and other software. I've seen this as early as 2010...

[recentdarkness]

And what about Red Hat? They do search Java, Python and Linux people all the time, and even Remote

[amyjess]

I... honestly didn't know they had offices here. Never saw them post anything on the job boards, either, at least not with the search terms I was using.

I'll keep them in mind if I find myself unemployed again or if I ever decide I want to leave this company.

[FilterSweep]

I'd say even inside the Valley too, depending on your tech stack, major, university pedigree, or stars on your open source github project.

But then again, the market is not on the side of employees in general - we are many, positions are few. AFAIC, programmers, developers, hackers, etc. still have it pretty good relatively.

[ryandrake]

It's definitely a myth. There may be a lot of companies with job postings and interviewing, but not a lot of hiring. Sure, HN posters will tell you all about the mythical "shortage of engineers" and how everyone is hiring. Also, everyone on HN has $200K salaries, can get their next job in 1-2 days max, and has a supermodel girlfriend. In reality, the hiring market really just doesn't seem to be that healthy. Still much better than the market for textile or factory workers, but not great.

[ryandrake]

Read through that article as well and I have to say it rings scarily true. To use the article's vocabulary, I wish there were more "Finder" roles out there. Most companies have plenty of "Implementor" and "Solver" roles, but nobody's looking for "Finders". Finding the right problem to solve is often the domain of the founders and execs because of course, they are oh-so-smart and always just innately know what the company should be working on!

I consider myself a decent programmer, and I love doing it. I used to program professionally, and still do so at home all the time as a hobby. But I have a hard time imagining myself coming into work and doing it for a living anymore. I got sick of implementing someone else's half-baked ideas and not having even a tiny say about what we're building, who it's for, what the most important features are, where we should spend our time, etc. It was all: Close this ticket. Fix this bug. Implement this feature using this binary tree here and that data structure there with these fields. JUST TYPE IT IN and don't worry if the product will be successful. Most places treat software engineering as data entry. The glorious Product Managers got to do the creative work!

So I moved over to the product management side to get those things and that's great. But it's still not a "Finder" role. You don't have enough time to both find and solve the problem, and you don't have the autonomy to do it right. You're too busy running around talking to 'stakeholders', smoothing over things with marketing, reviewing ad copy, sitting in strategic synergy meetings, battling with the UI designers, and trying to keep sales from selling something you don't have. And, at the end of the day, you still don't have that autonomy or creative control, since there's always someone higher up the food chain who just wants you to do it their way and write them a report about it.

It seems in tech your choice is between being an implementer-monkey and being a sock-puppet.

[jachee]

Isn't "Problem Finder" just a synonym for QA?