[jason_slack]

Do you have any interest in selling the domain and trademark to them? Perhaps you could give them a high number and they might say yes instead of a long legal battle.

This is moot, however, if you don't have any interest in selling to them.

[vincent_s]

This could backfire because it's a strong argument that you're not really interested in using the domain yourself. If you argue that this domain is important for you because of your brand you shouldn't put it up for sale at the same time.

[under_siege]

I think there are a couple of ways to look at this. Businesses are bought and sold every day on the principle of a mutually agreed upon valuation that is win-win. There's nothing whatsoever wrong with saying "No, what I have is worth a lot more than $200" and communicating a value you might be comfortable with.

In my case I selling my property was never even on my radar until these guys started to hound me. I'm still not interested with the exception of, as I said in another post, the kinds of offers that you just have to consider.

I would imagine a lot of folks on HN have domains registered with the expectation to use them for various projects. If someone came along and offered you $200 for a domain you've owned for a few years you'd probably say no and move on. Maybe you are using the domain to sell ebooks or something and make some money with it every month. If, on the other hand, the offer was for a few tens or hundreds of thousands, it might be a situation that would warrant (or should) consideration. This depends on your circumstances, of course.

In my case the "offer you can't refuse" would have to be in the seven figures range. Because it would be bad business not to consider such an offer. Anything below that is of no interest to me at all. I make over mid six figures a year with my engineering services.

That's very different from a well-funded corporation effectively bullying you and inflicting financial pain to take your domain or property away from you. One is a business transaction where everyone can walk away happy. The other is using force and brutality to, effectively, steal what isn't yours.

[devnonymous]

I don't get it, by your own admission the time isn't right to monetize on the domain and yet you expect a 7 figure value for it, what will they be paying for then? In another post you say something about selling your house and the responsibilities of wife and kids.. Are you really willing to put all of that at stake just to retain control over some 'perceived' value. Like I said, I don't get it.

[under_siege]

I would be lying to you if I said that my thoughts are entirely coherent at this point. I am certainly creating a more organized framework in my mind as a result of interaction and conversation with various people, including HN, as well as my own research.

Here's what I know so far (hopefully a coherent set of thoughts now):

  - Common law trademarks in the US do offer protection so long as one does not abandon usage of the mark in commerce
  - This is the case with me
  - I can show continuous usage for nearly 30 years
  - I will still have to file an opposition to their attempt to obtain a USPTO trademark
    - Have to wait three months
    - It will cost a few thousand dollars
  - They have been spamming the 'net with press releases in an attempt (successful so far) to drown out the few pages of search results that associated my name to the brand
      Q: Is there a "waybackmachine" for search
         In other words, is there a way to show what search results looked like for a certain terms on a specific date?
  - Whether or not they succeed at obtaining a trademark they can resort to suing me in order to snatch away the domain
  - Two theories here
      - Dilution: They take their 20 pages of search results and claim my possession of the domain damages "their" brand
      - Financial Intimidation: If I don't defend they can claim abandonment and own the brand
  - The law regarding domains does protect me 100%, yet it does not protect me from having to spend tons of money to defend it
      - Much like patents, they are a right to defend yourself and, if you don't have the money to do so they could be worthless
  - Per nissan.com, it could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to defend yourself
      - Even if the other party has no merit whatsoever
      - Hence my comment about having to sell everything and end-up on the street if I want to defend
      - Our legal system seems to be setup to favor those with deep pockets by allowing them to inflict such pain that the other party caves and gives in
          - The merit of the case does not matter when one party has to risk losing it all to mount a defense
          - Have not found a way around this (free qualified legal help, or some other equalizer of sorts)
      - Without further data it seems that someone with tens of millions of dollars can force someone without a huge bankroll to give up their brand
      - If this is my reality I will almost have no choice but to give-up on my dreams and on a brand I've owned for nearly thirty years

That, I think, is the context under which I said some of the things I've been saying. Regarding the 7 figures thing. I probably did a horrible job of communicating the intent. Not sure I can do better, but I'll try.

I don't want to sell. This was not my intent. I was actually getting ready to launch a new startup under this brand (moving away from consulting). There are only two ways I could see letting go of it. The first is if I have to face financial ruin to protect it. Not hard to understand. I have responsibilities towards my family that I cannot abdicate. The second is at the other end of the scale. This is the case where they make an offer that is so compelling that it would satisfy the idea of doing the right thing for my family and would make letting go of a brand that's been dear to my heart for nearly three decades. That offer, for me, is in the 7 figures (which, after taxes, can easily turn into 6).

I hope that clarifies where I am right now. I might not have all the angles covered but I think I understand the problem reasonably well. I am hoping to learn more as I sit down with counsel this week and explore legal realities.

Biggest take-away for others: If you own a domain you intend to use in the future and it matters to you, put up a blog and write something relevant to the brand every so often. If you just let it sit there you could be in trouble. And, yes, file for and obtain a trademark as soon as possible. Common law trademarks do work but real paper trademarks are far more powerful.

Thanks for your input.

[under_siege]

The points I was trying to make, reposted because code formatting makes them hard to read (sorry) and for some reason I can't edit them:

- Common law trademarks in the US do offer protection so long as one does not abandon usage of the mark in commerce

- This is the case with me

- I can show continuous usage for nearly 30 years

- I will still have to file an opposition to their attempt to obtain a USPTO trademark - Have to wait three months - It will cost a few thousand dollars

- They have been spamming the 'net with press releases in an attempt (successful so far) to drown out the few pages of search results that associated my name to the brand Q: Is there a "waybackmachine" for search In other words, is there a way to show what search results looked like for a certain terms on a specific date?

- Whether or not they succeed at obtaining a trademark they can resort to suing me in order to snatch away the domain

- Two theories here - Dilution: They take their 20 pages of search results and claim my possession of the domain damages "their" brand - Financial Intimidation: If I don't defend they can claim abandonment and own the brand

- The law regarding domains does protect me 100%, yet it does not protect me from having to spend tons of money to defend it - Much like patents, they are a right to defend yourself and, if you don't have the money to do so they could be worthless

- Per nissan.com, it could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to defend yourself - Even if the other party has no merit whatsoever - Hence my comment about having to sell everything and end-up on the street if I want to defend - Our legal system seems to be setup to favor those with deep pockets by allowing them to inflict such pain that the other party caves and gives in - The merit of the case does not matter when one party has to risk losing it all to mount a defense - Have not found a way around this (free qualified legal help, or some other equalizer of sorts) - Without further data it seems that someone with tens of millions of dollars can force someone without a huge bankroll to give up their brand - If this is my reality I will almost have no choice but to give-up on my dreams and on a brand I've owned for nearly thirty years

[under_siege]

To be frank, it would have to be one of those offers you can't possibly refuse. I hinted at that and they went from a few hundred bucks to a few thousand "last offer". Given their apparent mindset I don't see them going to a point where, on my end, it would be stupid not to accept.

To be clear, I am not interested in selling. I am simply describing what I would do in a hypothetical scenario where it would simply be stupid not to consider changing my mind.