[jcizzle]

That's not a political issue, although it somehow has been made out to be. Society is a group of people whose contributions - however large or small - are beneficial to the rest of that group. Those contributions are called 'work'. There are many benefits to being a part of a society. Receiving those benefits without contributing to the rest of the society is selfish.

This doesn't have much to do with Trump or gut-reactions. This has to do with some folks feeling entitled to the benefits created by hundreds of millions of people's effort because they were born in a certain place and time. Those benefits should be reserved for people who contribute to society.

The good thing is none of this will ever happen, as most people are good-hearted folks that want to contribute to society. A better discussion would be figuring out society can help facilitate that, instead of placating those who currently don't have a good way of contributing.

[Retra]

The "work culture" is built upon the very narrow understanding of 'work' that is prevalent in American culture: that of making money in a self-beneficial way. You don't have this kind of work culture when you're looking at people in the abstract and measuring their ability to benefit society.

[jcizzle]

If you believe that the only reason people work is to selfishly make money, then OK, there's not much convincing I can do here. It reminds me of the argument that supporting Brexit can only be accounted for by xenophobia or racism. Is it really true that that many people are bigots? Or maybe there is another explanation that isn't being accounted for? Either way, earning money is not a selfish thing - it requires another party to agree. Taking money is selfish. There is a big distinction.

[___eponymous___]

I agree that earning money isn't selfish, but I think it's undeniable that America is a work culture. It's essentially viewed as morally bad to not have a job, even if you opt to live the kind of life that doesn't require a car, or thousands of dollars of furniture, etc. In my opinion the amount of money the average American spends on stupid shit is mindblowing, especially when you consider that almost everyone works a 40 hour week until age 60 or later.

[antisthenes]

Is it not at least equally as mindblowing as to how much the average American spends on life's bare necessities like shelter, food and health care?

And at least 2 of those are only as high because of greed and deliberately exclusionary policies.

[___eponymous___]

Well, of course. I would argue, however, that most spend far more on food than they need to, and likewise for shelter - maybe not so much poor Americans, but in my experience middle class, upper-middle class and above Americans spend absolutely ridiculous amounts of money on their houses (together with lots of fallacies like thinking that renting is "throwing away money" and such). Healthcare is unavoidable, that's going to be a major expense for basically anyone.

At least looking around at other adults, I've noticed many spend really, really appalling amounts of money on things that don't really improve their lives in any way - and furthermore, that they seem to do so solely because it's what their parents did, or what they think is appropriate in society. Moreover, most consider it essentially an ironclad mandate that they work a 40 hour week until they're too old to work any longer.

[e40]

Is it really true that that many people are bigots?

I think it's pretty clear that xenophobic resistance to Remain was whipped up by various politicians. Are the people that voted based on this bigots? Many of them, yes, but some are just exhibiting fear of "them" (taking jobs, etc).