[brooklyndavs]

Its hypocrisy and contempt coming from "elites" via the very institutions that are critical to a democracy, the media. When the 4th estate works in a neutral, non-biased, fact based way democracy can work. However, once you have major media bought and paid for by those "elites" to push some billionaire's agenda you sow distrust in media. Once the voters don't have a place to go for trusted information all bets are off...

[TeMPOraL]

> institutions that are critical to a democracy, the media. When the 4th estate works in a neutral, non-biased, fact based way democracy can work.

I don't believe mainstream media ever worked in a neutral, non-biased, fact based way. They definitely have not been for the past few decades I've been on this planet. Maybe in the past they were more under control by various "elites", government or otherwise. Now, in the west, they are "free" - which means they actually serve Moloch[0], by writing what sells. That is, the most outrage-inducing, biased misrepresentations (and often outright lies) they can get away with.

Not sure what is worse[1], but it doesn't matter much. The point is, media isn't "a place to go for trusted information", it never has been, and if this is an institution "critical to democracy", then we have a big problem right here.

[0] - http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

[1] - "elites" at least care about something identifiably human; metaphorical Moloch does not, so the outcome may be very well something nobody wanted, including any of the "elites"

[hackuser]

> I don't believe mainstream media ever worked in a neutral, non-biased, fact based way. ... they are "free" - which means they actually serve Moloch[0], by writing what sells. That is, the most outrage-inducing, biased misrepresentations (and often outright lies) they can get away with. ... media isn't "a place to go for trusted information" ...

I think painting all news media with the same brush is significantly misconstrues the situation.

As a comparison, no software developer is perfect and can be absolutely trusted, and some devs are toxic. But I would be wrong to say: Therefore all software developers are toxic.

Similarly, there is better and worse news media. Can we absolutely trust any? Of course not; these are human institutions. But there's a long way from The Sun and The National Inquirer to The Financial Times and NY Times.

[TeMPOraL]

I don't think it misconstrues the situation much.

To follow your comparison - sure, we don't say software developers are all toxic[0]. But we like to complain that almost all software is shit. There are gems of almost perfect beauty and usability, and we love them, but there are so few of those. Here on HN we sometimes like to discuss dynamics of what makes most of software shit - and we often find similar sort of economic pressures to those mass media faces.

The thing is, we put extra care in the software that directly affects lives of people. For anything else, we rarely bother. So if the institution of media is so important to democracy, maybe we should put some extra care here too.

(Though I don't know how to do that.)

[0] - also note, that I didn't say "all journalists are toxic"; however, the products of the institutions they form are a different story.

[hackuser]

> we like to complain that almost all software is shit

People like to use hyperbole, but IME I've never met someone who thought all software was bad or equally bad. There is a very wide range of quality.

[hackuser]

> once you have major media bought and paid for by those "elites" to push some billionaire's agenda you sow distrust in media. Once the voters don't have a place to go for trusted information all bets are off...

I don't think this is what's happening. Much of the media - especially the Murdoch/Fox empire which includes many of the most popular news outlets in the US and UK - sells anger, distrust of government and 'mainstream media' (which somehow doesn't include Murdoch's companies), and outright lies and propaganda.

IMHO, that's where much of the distrust comes from; it's nothing more complex than a propaganda campaign.