[vonklaus]

interesting. I would never make this trade and find it horrifying.

> This makes more clear the difference between a real jihadist with bad intentions, and a pious person slowly being brainwashed

While I respect you view it this way, I have trouble believing this is even slightly reminiscient of reality. You seem to imply that if not for terrorist propaganda on twitter, "pious" people would not be terrorists. I suspect this is an outlandish strawman devoid of any substance.

> At what cost? Apparently at the cost of innocent lives.

This has always been the cost. Many people have knowingly given their lives for such ideals. Certainly private corporations have the freedom and latitude to make their own decisions, however, there is a reason freedom of speech was built into the bill of rights.

edit: it was indicated that driving them underground was considered positive, I would also like to respectfully disagree. If we accept this is where the "real" terrorists are congregating (online communities) having them remain in plain view and analyzing their recruitment and propaganda techniques would likely be a high leverage option.

[putaside]

When "normal" citizens can find instructions on how to create IED's and pipe bombs on the surface internet, something is very very wrong. This is what causes naive easily-influenced youth to radicalize. They do not even have to seek it out on the deep web, their social feeds are filled with such extremist content.

Then when the police confiscates their computer and finds Inspire magazine on there, they are branded a terrorist and face jail. While there is a difference between curious rebellious youth and hardcore jihadists, it's very murky when there is such easy access to real damaging stuff.

Driving them underground would make anyone seeking them out a solid suspect. Right now innocent bystanders are confronted with their propaganda and may give in (whereas normally they never would).

I know these are American companies, but they are used world-wide. The bill of rights and American standards of free speech do not have to apply everywhere though. Europe faces the consequences of this unbridled free speech. You want free (hate) speech? Fine. Create your own website and host your own content. Don't (ab)use these big companies who hide behind our-algo's-could-not-find-it and do not take their responsibility, because they have so many users they can never police them all.

Real terrorists use both the surface web (for recruitment and propaganda) and the underground web (for planning attacks). No smart terrorist uses the surface web for planning. The damage of surface web propaganda far exceeds the damage of having no intel on surface web propaganda.

[vonklaus]

> When "normal" citizens can find instructions on how to create IED's and pipe bombs on the surface internet, something is very very wrong.

I disagree. In the extremely unlikely event I have to disarm an IED I would like to be able to google this from my mobile. I also own a copy of the anarchist cookbook, and I have for about a decade (acquired around age 16). To date, I have not committed any acts of terrorism.

> This is what causes naive easily-influenced youth to radicalize. They do not even have to seek it out on the deep web, their social feeds are filled with such extremist content.

If being aware of (or actually downloading) torbrowser was the only impediment to terrorism with an IED I would be very uncomfortable. Luckily, I do not accept your appraisal of the situation.

> Driving them underground would make anyone seeking them out a solid suspect.

If we accept that interacting with terrorist online should make you a suspect, surely having them be easily accessibly would help lop off the low hanging fruit. I don't actually believe this would be a great course of action, but the logic of keeping terrorists (and potential terrorists) in plain sight is largely pretty sound. Also, how would we verify who was seeking out these terrorists if channels of communication are largely asynchronous and offline as well as executed with varying degrees of obfuscation?

> The bill of rights and American standards of free speech do not have to apply everywhere though.

Correct. I indicated they do not have to follow the bill of rights, it is a bill of rights garunteed to be provided by the U.S. Government to its citizenry. However, the point I was making is that many sovereign nations allow for free speech because it is fundamentally important. So important, it is at the cornerstone of the culture of a young and extremely prosperous nation: America.

edit: I respectfully disagree with almost every comment you have made. I don't want to levy an accusation that you are somehow complicit (or actively involved) in perpetuating myths about terrorism, free speech and the tornetwork but if you are not, I find your rhetoric painfully ignorant.

[Dylan16807]

>When "normal" citizens can find instructions on how to create IED's and pipe bombs on the surface internet, something is very very wrong. This is what causes naive easily-influenced youth to radicalize. They do not even have to seek it out on the deep web, their social feeds are filled with such extremist content.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipe_bomb#Design

If you honestly think trivial information on explosives is going to cause radicalization then you are insane.