[gonvaled]

- they have taken everything from the EU, and given little in return.

- they have dragged their feet for 40 years, preventing EU progress

- they have forced on the EU expansion to the East (which I welcome), and then complained that too many poles are migrating to the UK

- they have prevented political integration and shoved down our throats a neo-liberal EU

- they have been treated excepcionally well by the rest of the EU, with excemptions and rebates. How have they thanked us? By continuing to blame all their problems on the EU.

And now they leave.

But I do not loathe them (my personal experience with british people is excellent). I think that you, as a country, have been extremely unfair with your EU partners, and basically betrayed the European project, and the trust that we have deposited in you.

So, the only thing left now is just to accept things as they are: you have chosen to leave, so please do it immediately. Do not burden us with your petty politics. We are not interested in knowing if the next prime minister is going to have the majority to invoke article 50 or not, or if you will have a new referendum, or if Scotland will split from the UK. We do not want to wait for 6 motnhs, or 2 years, or 10 years until you get your house in order. We do not want this uncertainty anymore. We have respectfully waited the last two years (?) for your referendum to be held, but now we have had enough. David Cameron has organized this mess, and he should bear responsibility for making it legally binding.

[beninvalencia]

The strange thing about this for me, is that you had an excellent experience with the British people but now you are effectively calling for them to be crushed by this, at least, the 48.1% who voted remain, plus all the young people who couldn't vote but would have voted for remain.

[gonvaled]

I do not want to crush anybody. I want to salvage what is left of the EU. We can not allow for uncertainty, since now we'll get 20 more referenda all around the EU.

YOU have decided, and must take responsibility. We can not wait for years while your jonsons, farages and whoever sort their internal politics.

Cameron called the referendum and assured in case of defeat he would activate article 50 immediately. He must deliver. You have two years time to negotiate anyway.

I am sorry for the UK, I really am. I think you were an important partner, even though a bit unfair. But we must respect your decission: we can not pretend this is business as usual. The british people have voted, and we must respect that.

Specially sorry for the remainers, but this is something you need to sort out internally.

You are a sovereign nation.

[beninvalencia]

As in your other comment, it's true also that despite 'paying more into the EU than receiving' directly, the benefits have been large. In fact the whole argument that the UK will be better off financially leaving is missing the point. The UK received big benefits from being in the EU and trying to calculate some in/out net contribution is again, missing the point entirely.

However, and I know this will grate horribly, but the EU might have to wait, whether it likes it or not. If article 50 is not invoked, no one can force the UK out. What's more, there are gathering suspicions that the UK could consider a second vote in some months' time. Only by waiting could this happen.

For context: I am British and do not want to leave the EU, despite my best efforts to find the positives in my other comments. I think that the UK had a good deal before and was able to influence policy from within. Now we will be punished by the EU and break up internally.

But beyond all of this, I don't want to live in a country where people have voted so stupidly, and so nastily. One of the leave campaign's biggest claims has been proven to be false. Actually proven to be false. And people voted on that. This in my view is almost grounds for a voiding of the entire process. I feel ashamed of my country and I'm a "true" Brit by their standards. I consider myself lucky in that I can leave and live somewhere else, and this is what I intend to do. I no longer feel a part of the country of my family and of my life so far. And I didn't see such a strong feeling coming until it hit me with the leave vote.

[gonvaled]

I see your point of view, and I'll try to explain mine:

This has been a big blow and, unless we act united and fast, the EU is going to crumble. You say that, due to how the referendum has played out, it would be better to repeat it in some months time. What happens in those months? Nobody knows, but probably very big damage for the EU and for European countries, while financial havoc paralizes the economy.

And afterwards? You vote again? Leave again? Why wait more then? Remain? Can the EU really deal with such unstability, a partner which does not accept a role alongside the rest of EU members, constantly complaining, penny pinching and accusing the EU of all imaginable problems? We have frankly had enough. I understand this is not your personal stance, but that is the UK's attitude.

I think that “what is done can not be undone“. Lets try to craft a deal which suits both parties. It could be that lots of EU agreements can be salvaged for EU-UK cooperation.

If we were talking about this last week, I would support you, but reality has kicked in, and you wanted leave. This is not a game you get to play again and again. This was a one-man bet, and the whole country played along. What a disaster!

[beninvalencia]

Yeah, the damage to the EU is also a huge issue. It's terrible it's come to this.

There is precedent for a second referendum - Ireland did so in 2009 on accepting the 28th Amendment. I admit, this is a lot bigger.

I think the context here which may help this to make more sense to those outside: a lot of British people voted for leave on false claims. Ok, lots of elections have false claims. But these were enormously misleading and widely spread. It seems like there are a lot who regret their decision, though I'm not sure what % they represent. If there is a general election called early with a party that explicitly backs EU membership winning, then there's no way we can leave without another referendum. And if we vote to stay, I think there would be grounds for the EU to get us to accept a lot of things which we might not have before.

But yes, it's a totally miserable situation for everyone.. you know what, I'd even say it's miserable for the politicians who 'won'.

[gonvaled]

Indeed. I am not even sure that Boris Johnson expected, or even wanted to win. Is he awol?

[GunboatDiplomat]

IIRC, they've paid more into the EU than they get paid back to them in various programs.

It's disingenuous to say they "took everything and gave nothing."

[gonvaled]

Thats because (overall)you are richer: the EU works at the region level. Besides, the EU is not only money, there are also intangibles.

Besides, you are counting only EU related expenditures. Are you counting indirect benefits? How much money makes london operating EUR finantial center? And lots of other indirect benefits.

[GunboatDiplomat]

Nevertheless, it's wrong and disingenuous to state that the UK has taken "everything" and given "nothing."

[gonvaled]

To be completely fair, I did not say "nothing":

> they have taken everything from the EU, and given little in return

(not edited, that's my original statement)

[mercer]

> - they have forced on the EU expansion to the East (which I welcome), and then complained that too many poles are migrating to the UK

Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lScVfwe-Rp0