[nicotonico]

Yes. I am saying that, and that if you don't do it, others will kill you. And if you don't believe me, there you have the current religious terrorism (or warfare) in Europe. Does it ring a bell? It's not like it hasn't happened thousands of times throughout history.

[coldtea]

>And if you don't believe me, there you have the current religious terrorism (or warfare) in Europe. Does it ring a bell?

Yeah, there have been like 1000 (much less actually, but let's put it at that) victims in Europe in attacks in say, 10 years.

Europeans use to kill the same number of those people, in their own countries, where on top they ruled and occupied their lands, every month or so. And sometimes just for fun. And not in some ancient ages -- up to the 1960s, and in some places, today still.

Just two examples:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A9tif_and_Guelma_massacre

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/inside-france...

[gkya]

> 1000

That's about a fraction of the number of muslims killed by islamic terrorism. Here in Turkey we had about five or six major ISIS suicide-bomber cases in the past twelve months, e.g. 30-odd dead in Suruc, 100-odd in Ankara, and in Istanbul, 10-odd in Cemberlitas, 5-10 in Taksim, 6 in Vezneciler (the most recent). In the recent 10 years there have been many Hizbullah attacks (I recall the HSBC bombing, tho vaguely). And I don't even talk about what the ISIS is doing in the levant at the moment, we'll learn the numbers later. I'll just add: there are about 3 million syrians here in Turkey, a couple million in Lebanon, and a minute fraction of that in Europe. And all that we have today is thanks to post-WWI european imperialism and imposed borders in the middle east.

[bovermyer]

Well, I disagree with you. I suppose that puts me on your kill list, and you on mine. Shall we race to the finish?

(edit: the above is satire, folks)

[derekjohn]

Or you could, you know, choose not to kill each other.

[bovermyer]

I like this option so much better.

[gpvos]

Europe seems to be doing rather fine despite the attempts of the islamists to kill us. The most important thing is to not let them play us apart.

I'd say the only way to advance civilization is to stick to civilized principles as much as you can. Yes, there's a breaking point, but that has not been reached by far.

[Annatar]

  > Does it ring a bell? It's not like it hasn't happened 
  > thousands of times throughout history.

While that is true, what about the ideas of Buddha in the sutras? There are several sutras which deal with this particular thing, and how violence was overcome with non-violence. And if you think "that won't work!", I want to point out that of all the civilizations on this planet which came and went, only the Chinese and the Vedic survived to this present day; they even fought and won their independence from the vast and mighty British empire with civil disobedience and non-violence! The Vedic civilization gave us the concept of Chakra wheel of Dharma, the Dharmaraja, and buddha, which anyone can become.

If anyone knows what a violent war is, it's us, Europeans. Isn't that all the more reason we should turn to civil disobedience and non-violence, instead of repeating the same mistakes, over and over and over again?

In a way, what the English did by voting to exit the european union is a form of civil disobedience, sending a very clear signal to Bruxelles, and the EU government's rigidiy and unwillingness to reform. And for that, for being peacefully disobedient, for sending a signal, that's worthy of respect.