[Naritai]

I came to the valley in a forced relocation some time ago. In that case, we also lost >50% of the team, including engineering. (I stayed until my green card came through then jumped ship.) It was clear, though, that the VPs and up didn't care, because they had their heart set on being Silicon Valley Executives, and damned if they were going to let the rank-and-file get in their way. They were so caught up in the glory of VC and speeding down 280 that they were not interested in the business argument. And as for the departing staff? "It's Silicon Valley, we can easily replace staff"

Here I get a sense of the same story. There is no way it's difficult to hire talent in Toronto, which consistently ranks as one of the most desirable cities in the world. A simple Google search also will produce hundreds, if not thousands, of articles about how the Canadian immigration system is a breeze compared to the US's. Thus I believe this executive team is the same as my own - determined to be 'San Francisco startup CEO', and damned the cost.

By the way, my company's technology fell behind its competitors' (perhaps because of the loss of talent?) and was sold off to a conglomerate ~5 years later, at the same valuation as it had pre-relocation. The CEO had departed the company by then.

[potatolicious]

Yeah, it doesn't feel like things really ever work out, retention-wise, for companies that move from elsewhere to SV. Invariably they make "cost of living adjustments" to comp, but never enough to actually be competitive with the infamous SF/SV market, and so their talent drains as soon as they set foot in the Bay Area.

This particular news about Joist is just confusing - it looks like they've laid off a huge portion of their staff, with no replacements on the immediate horizon. Doesn't this mean that the business has effectively ground to a halt while they re-hire in SV?

It sounds less like a move and more like a reboot.

[Naritai]

It does sound like they kept most of their engineers, and shed mostly CS staff - which shows a remarkable disdain for those positions. I would be very nervous about working for this company in one of those positions in the future.

[slantyyz]

>> There is no way it's difficult to hire talent in Toronto, which consistently ranks as one of the most desirable cities in the world.

It's not hard to hire talent in Toronto if you're willing to pay full price.

In my experience, a lot of startups will try to use the lure of risky options/equity/bonus promises with the occasional signing bonus in exchange for a "startup discount" on the base salary.

Combine high living expenses of Toronto with the fact that there are so many large companies in Toronto offering stable jobs, your talent pool shrinks to those people who can or are willing to take on the risk of working for a startup.

[Naritai]

Sure - now take that situation, and throw into the mix having Google and Facebook 30-mins away and them having the budget to outbid you on anybody they want at any time. That's what Joist management is walking into by moving to SF.