[aavotins]

Norway has one of the highest taxes in the world. Combined with labor laws that are somewhat biased in favour of the employee.

Wouldn't it be hard to create a scene like that in a socially developed country. Large wages would mean ridiculous taxes, so it would be very expensive to attract talent and workforce, based on wages alone(think Bay Area in the US). What about iterating quickly, which involves hiring and firing people quickly as well? If I'm not mistaken, in the US you can fire people on the spot, but that's not the case in Europe and Norway. You have strict labor laws, notice periods, the whole shebang. Won't that be an extra burden for startups?

edit: spelling

[vidarh]

Norway's taxes on personal income are just marginally above the OECD average [1], which places it somewhat above the US, but not particularly high for a developed country. The idea that Norway is particular high tax tends to come from the marginal tax rate, which indeed is higher than the US, but the threshold is also high.

Norwegian corporate taxes are low, at 25% corporate income tax [2], well below the OECD average, while US corporate taxes are one of the highest in the world and by far the highest of any OECD country [2] [3].

> What about iterating quickly, which involves hiring and firing people quickly as well?

Then hire people on contracts. Nothing in Norwegian law prevents you from hiring and firing at will as long as you don't make people think you're hiring for a position that is meant to last.

[1] http://taxfoundation.org/article/comparison-tax-burden-labor...

[2] http://stats.oecd.org//Index.aspx?QueryId=58204

[2] http://taxfoundation.org/blog/us-has-highest-corporate-incom...

[alephnil]

There is no problem firing people in Norway as long as you have a real need to reduce the workforce, or even reduce the headcount in one profession and at the same point increase in another (like in restructuring). This is easier in Norway than many other European countries, especially in Southern Europe.

What you can't do is to fire someone because you don't like them or fire someone while you at the same time is hiring for positions the individuals you are firing are qualified for.

While what you say about contractors are only partially right. If the contractors are hired as individuals, they can legally claim a permanent position after working there for three years. If they on the other hand are engaged through a consulting company or similar, that will not be the case, since then the contract is between two companies. If the consulting agency does not have other contracts available, they can downsize.

[vidarh]

I'm norwegian, and have run companies (and done consulting) in Norway, so yes, I'm familiar with the limitations, which is why most contractors are hired through companies - whether personal AS's or an agency. When I was working that way I don't think the idea of hiring someone on a contract basis personally was something anyone ever brought up, exactly for this reason.

[JPKab]

So the solution is to contract instead of hire? That's no good. If contract workers were as ideal as employees, then everyone would do it. But they don't, for a multitude of reasons.

[falsestprophet]

Job security has value. If you want to buy the ability to fire people at will, you'll have to pay for it.

[llamataboot]

Iterating quickly doesn't always have to involve treating people like a disposable resource. You can often iterate on product with the same core team.

[collyw]

Indeed, you will likely iterate more quickly.

[kxyvr]

Not really. It depends on a number of factors, which I'll try to recall and ballpark here. For reference, I've lived and done business in both countries as a small business. Though, I've very much an American perspective.

As a small business in the U.S., I'm registered as an LLC, but file for taxes as a sole-proprietor. That means that all business income is pass through and considered personal income. Though, income brackets as graduated, much of my income falls into the 25% tax bracket. Next, since I make less than the FICA tax ceiling of $118,500, my entire income is subject to FICA (payroll) tax, so I pay an additional 15.3%. If you work for someone else, you pay half that, but that's the joy of being self employed. After that, my state income tax rate is 4.9%. Yes, it's graduated, but not by much. Finally, I have a state gross-receipts tax of 7%, but I typically offload that onto my customers. Adding that all together, I pay 45.2% of my business income on tax, which is everything minus business expenses. If I count the gross receipts tax, this would be 52.2%. Also, since I'm self-employed, I have to pay for my own health insurance. Let's just say that the health care market place isn't all that we hoped. I did receive a discount this year, but I had been paying $500/month or $6000 a year. Yes, there is cheaper health insurance, but as someone who has had complicated dealings with hospitals in the past, I refuse to use an HMO and will always use a PPO. Do note, health insurance premiums are not tax deductible and until we meet our yearly deductible, we pay 100% of the expenses. Generally, I budget $8000/year for health insurance premiums and expenses.

In Norway, business structures are slightly different, but the closest thing to a sole-propietorship is an enkeltpersonforetak. I don't believe you get quite the same benefit as an LLC sole-propietorship in the U.S., but they're similar for tax purposes because its also considered a pass-through entity. Now, I'm not completely up to date on the current tax situation. Looking at my current tax card, it says that I would pay 47%, but I don't currently live there and my taxes were messed up enough where I required an accountant. When I was living there, my tax rate was somewhere between 34-36%. However, that included a few percent tax discount because I was a skilled, technical worker who just moved to Norway and was in my first two years of work. Next, I'm required to pay VAT on my contracts, which is 15% of the total. However, like gross receipts tax, I pass this on to my customers. Like the U.S., business expenses are deducted off the total.

Now, certainly, I'm more familiar with American taxes. However, in the last year, concretely, my American tax rate was 45.2% and my Norwegian tax rate was 47%. That's pretty much a wash. However, in Norway, I can access their health system, which saves me $6000/year in premiums and, I'll estimate $1800 in other medical expenses. It depends on the exchange, but I recall paying 200NOK for a doctors visit, which is is about $30. Now, certainly, cost of living in Norway is higher than where I live now. It is lower than living in many major cities. I just checked finn.no and a decent one bedroom runs about 8500NOK, which is a little over $1000/month.

As far as getting access to money, I don't know the investor scene, but I do know something about the grant scene. In Norway, Innovation Norway is supposed to give out good grants with few strings attached. In terms of strings, my impression is that it compared to the SBIR system in the U.S. Though, dear god please, check the details.

Look, the biggest thing about doing business in Norway is that although its western, living and doing business in Norway is very different than the U.S. Until you get a handle on the nuances of janteloven and learn to speak fluent Norwegian, things are tough. You're also living in a small environment, which has advantages and draw backs. However, candidly, Norway is very isolated compared to the U.S. That being said, I do not believe that Norway has a hostile environment to business. To the contrary, if you're making less than $200k/year I contend that it may be cheaper to live in Norway when factoring in taxes and health care. If you're making more than that, then the equation probably shifts with how money can be funneled through an S-corp or C-corp and dividends in the U.S. Though, Norway has its own tax structures that businesses use to shelter money.

Anyway, TLDR, doing business in Norway is fine and, in terms of taxes, not that different than the U.S. Doing business in Norway is done in the Norwegian style. It's not that hard to learn, but do not expect to just show up and operate and usual. Personally, I think it takes 1-2 years to figure out the culture and by year 3 to be fluent enough in language to really start working the system.

[vkou]

Context: "If you work for someone else, you pay half that, but that's the joy of being self employed."

For those not aware of the intricacies of this, if you work for someone else, your employer pays half of that 15.3%. (And reduces your salary accordingly.)

In this respect, the self-employed don't pay more taxes then anyone else. The rest of us simply don't realize we are paying it.

[kxyvr]

Yes, you are correct. To me, it's kind of like health benefits. You sort of take it for granted until you work for yourself and realize that you have to pay it. Mostly, the two big expenses that I see other small businesses not correctly account for is increased tax liability and health care.

[xiaoma]

How would most Norwegians look upon an American trying to learn their language and assimilate (at least on a professional and social level)?

[einarfd]

Americans are generally well liked, even though American foreign policies are not always popular. Norwegian is probably one of the easiest languages to learn for an English speaker, the grammars are very similar. You can almost get away with just learning a set of new words and use English grammar. But almost everyone speaks English, so my English speaking friends have had a bit of a problem learning Norwegian, because you don't really need it.

[rconti]

Also interested; was on a business trip to Copenhagen and Stockholm and could suddenly see myself living in Scandinavia in the future...

FWIW, I was working with a big bank and all business was conducted in English because they were spread across multiple countries.

[kxyvr]

In my experience, pretty well modulo a couple of things. First, and we might as well get this out of the way now, it helps if you're light skinned because, frankly, many Norwegians are still pretty xenophobic and racist. It's simple to point at guys like Breivik, but the not so secret secret is that there are others. For example, if you're bored, look up guys like Arne Myrdal who tried to bomb an asylum center back in the late 1980s. Yes, that was 20 years ago, but these things go in cycles and Breivik was in the middle of one of them. It also helps to understand that Norway hasn't had a large amount of immigration until recently, so I feel like they're still trying to figure out things culturally. At this point, there're first and second generation Pakistani immigrants in Oslo, but they've had a relatively rough time of it. I still feel like the Somali immigrants are having a really hard time. Generally, Americans, Canadians, and western Europeans are seen as the "good" immigrants. I'm a light skinned Hispanic from the U.S. and I was, for the most part, well welcomed. But, to be clear, there will be racial and national dynamics that need to be worked through. I feel its doable, but everyone has their own tolerance level.

Second, as far as language, there are great resources locally to learn language, such as from the municipal government or the university. Generally, on a personal level, people are pretty helpful as well. In addition, everyone speaks English, so if you get stuck, you can just ask in English and get unstuck. I found that the first three months everyone was pretty good at switching to English to make me feel welcome in conversation. However, after about three months, there was a not insignificant number of people who stopped and figured that I'd be there long enough to speak Norwegian. Candidly, that's not enough time and it was somewhat jarring. For a native English speaker, figure on about two years. For a native German speaker, figure on about one year, but, certainly, language learning is a personal sort of thing that takes as long as it needs to. Overall, I think Norwegians have a difficult time listening to Norwegian in a foreign accent; it doesn't happen that often, so their ear isn't super tuned to it. That makes some early speaking difficult as people look at you like you're crazy. Over time, that moderates.

Professionally, janteloven is a very real phenomenon that needs to be learned and understood. That's a really, really long conversation, but the short version is that if you come in energetically into your first job with some ideas that you want to share, you're going to be in for a shock and many people will think you're a prick. Note, this far more subtle than "telling other people how to do their job". Now, it's not that people can't share ideas. They do, but in a different way and one that can take a bit more time. Play it cool. Go to lunch everyday with your department and coworkers. Go to afternoon coffee with everyone and bullshit. After about a year you'll probably figure it out. I really, really screwed this up at my first job out there. Nowadays, I find it relatively easy to negotiate, but it was a big learning experience for me.

Overall, I do find people there friendly and welcoming, in a very Norwegian way. If you take the time to learn the language, even slowly, and have even a small amount of interest in Norwegian sorts of culture like påskekrim, funny traditional foods, and winter activities, it goes a very, very long way. Norway is not, but any stretch, Shangri-La, but I believe it's very doable as an immigrant. Mostly, it'll come down to whether or not you like living in that culture. Generally, I say it takes two to three years to figure that out.