[kreeves]

I've mostly tried to fight the anti-PHP movement because I WANT new developers to come on board and create great things. I want new packages to pop-up as soon as some new tool/api/widget becomes available.

I've felt for quite some time that most of the anti-PHP sentiment is an effort of other developers to justify the language they've selected to focus on. "Yeah, I'm doing Javascript and Node.js and yeah it's got it's sharp edges, but at least it's not PHP!"

The problem is, if the negativity continues, the next step is that business WONT want PHP in their ecosystem... And not because it can't get the job done for them, but just because "ew PHP. I heard that was bad."

[vesak]

>I've felt for quite some time that most of the anti-PHP sentiment is an effort of other developers to justify the language they've selected to focus on.

Would you be surprised if I told you that pro-PHP sentiment looks exactly like that as well?

[kreeves]

I could see that, to a degree. But I agree with this article that most (if not all) of the "bad" of PHP has been completely papered over through best practices, documentation, fantastic tooling, or removal from the language. So the pro-PHP movement is more of a "guys, we're doing the same thing as you, why can't we all just get along?"

When was the last time we saw a "PHP is Great!" article make it to the front page of HN? Most of the time, PHP developers are on their heels because it seems others are constantly on the offense. I've not figured out what value this constant aggression provides to these developers making the arguments. My only conclusion is that they're just trying to make themselves seem more important. To that note, the pro-PHP camp becomes more of a "non-anti-PHP." :)

[imtringued]

>the "bad" of PHP has been completely papered over through best practices, documentation, fantastic tooling, or removal from the language. I mean sure I could just reimplement a sane standard library from a different language in PHP and then live with the suboptimal syntax or maybe I don't waste my time and just use that language with the better standard library from the get go.

[ransom1538]

I disagree. Wanting to get new grads into PHP is bizarre. They would be ostracized. They don't have the technical experience to know WHY it is a good language (CI/unit testing/years of libraries/API support in everything/bla bla). They should be working on things that are new and untested. That is what a twenty something should be working on. Check please?

[nikdaheratik]

I think this criticism is missing the biggest problem most new grads have: how to work well with others.

Version control, documentation, checking their work before committing and sending to QA, documentation, and learning how little they actual know about development on a real timescale >> which language they use. I'd rather start out in a well run IT shop that uses PHP than a quirky single dev small shop (or god-forbid an academic ivory tower of babel) with the most cutting edge startup blessed tool set.